Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
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31-10-2014, 06:36 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
Do you think you will get anywhere by repeatedly ignoring arguments?

Everyone in here will tell you that there is no absolute moral truth exactly because there are people who think child abuse is fine and not because atheists think that sometimes child abuse is good.

None of us in here thinks that child abuse is sometimes good. We just can't accept it as a universal moral truth because some people in the world think it's good.

I mean, how hard is that for you to grasp?

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31-10-2014, 06:37 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 06:34 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 06:21 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  For the millionth time.

False dilemma.

False dilemma.

FALSE DILEMMA

Youre ignoring the question... Do you agree with me that child abuse is ALWAYS, universally and absolutely wrong, or do you not believe in universal absolute moral truth?

Lol, the irony.

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31-10-2014, 06:38 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 06:32 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 06:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  Dude, your thinking lacks depth and nuance, you have no idea where morals come from, and you're running scared.

Im not the one running scared Smile Im the one PROUDLY saying child abuse is ALWAYS wrong despite anyone's opinion... and you disagree.

Quote:Morals are a social construct erected on a base of evolved moral sense and empathy, We could agree that in all societies, everywhere, always, that the unwarranted harm of another human is wrong. That does not make it a universal truth, just a common one.

If you don't agree with me that child abuse is NEVER GOOD despite a social construct condoning it, explain to me why you simply don't believe THEY are WRONG, and also please explain when it is GOOD to abuse a child... if its NEVER good then this IS a universal absolute moral truth

Quote:You need to read some books; real ones, not crap from apologists.

I obviously don't read apologists... cant stand them. In my opinion most of them are as wrong as you are when you say theres no absolute truth Wink

I go to the sources whenever possible, not some blogger.

As expected, you did not understand what I said. Murder, rape, child abuse, theft, mayhem, and so on are considered wrong in every human society. The boundaries of the definitions vary a bit.

But that is true because of our evolved social instincts.

Where do your absolutes exist? If there were no humans, would those absolutes exist?

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31-10-2014, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2014 06:43 PM by Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue.)
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 06:27 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Ok... you don't believe in absolute moral truth, you were very clear. So if the it isn't true that Child abuse is NEVER GOOD, please give me an example of when it IS good?
In order to answer that to your satisfaction we need common definitions. You're positing an open hypothetical for "child" and "abuse" which have a number of possible permutations but they're matters of degree. (Age and harm obviously.)

"Good" however is less precise. It's entirely personal and built around our social perception. So you need to define it.

Edit: I realise I'm treating a malformed question as though it's valid. If he's(?) not listening on that front then this probably won't work.

But it's my time to waste.
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31-10-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
You failed to understand that your questions were no longer dilemmas within the parameters of my counterarguments.

I already had to repeat and clarify my position for you multiple times in that thread and yet you still have not adapted your argument despite the fact that it is void and obsolete under the opposing positions provided.

I'm not repeating it again for somebody incapable, and has been demonstrated in this thread, wholly unwilling, to either modify his position or answer in accordance to input given. I might as well speak to a looped message on a broken record; it will achieve similar results.

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31-10-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 06:27 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Thank you for addressing the topic! Good talking to you. I'll be the first to admit its a hard question, but it is good to question even our very own beliefs and put them to the test.... I appreciate this about you and the fact you spoke up clearly about what you believe...

Thanks and, in case I missed it, welcome to the forums. Big Grin

(31-10-2014 06:27 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Ok... you don't believe in absolute moral truth, you were very clear.

There's a subtle loss of nuance here.

I do not think absolute moral truth exists.

This is NOT the same statement as above. I can believe in absolute moral truth, much the same way i can believe in unicrons (Well... one Unicron) etc... but believing in something does not make it true.

Hope that helps.

(31-10-2014 06:27 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  So if the it isn't true that *Redacted t comply with forum guide-lines*, please give me an example of when it IS good?

When it IS good? How about the places in the world (As has been mentioned before,IN thread) where it is practiced. Or where it HAS been practiced? So... there's two examples for you. Hence your [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma"]False Dilemma[/url], again as has been pointed out to you previously before in the thread.

Also, as I pointed out on the backs of others.. (Assuming)Your theistic beliefs are based on some overbearing being, then THAT being's actions which have included the deaths of kittens and puppies CANNOT thence be absolutely morally true... Since we find the killing of kitties and puppies to be something to revile.

I re-post that: "Adults understand that there are many varied shades of grey present in the real world. I believe neurosciences have done studies to show that this faculty to see things BEYOND black and white only really develops after the age of five in humans."

Your statements seem to be nothing BUT hard, black and white statements with no nuances oi grey. You also seem to insist that others respond to you in the same binary way.

Dang but thinking this early in the morning with no coffee sucks. Tongue

Hope that helps further things.

Much cheers to all.
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31-10-2014, 06:46 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
I am going to issue a challenge. The next one that says I'm just a troll, or don't know my science, or don't know math... be prepared to take me on in a one on one debate. I hereby challenge the next one who makes such a claim. The debate:

"God created" is more scientifically sound and MUCH better tested AND fared better in testing, than the Big Bang/String theory.

I will defend "God created", YOU defend Big Bang/String... open challenge and definiately applies to anyone who thinks my science isn't up to yours.

Now... back to the topic..

You guys need to know this isn't personal, so you don't have to continue tryint to MAKE it personal... Iv not insulted a one of you and I don't intend to. I'm here to talk

I TOLD YOU I had honest points of discussion and HONEST CHALLENGES to your belief. I never lied to you and that's why I'm here... to TALK about these differences and discuss their ramifications.

The fact that 90 percent of the world differs with you on absolute moral truth doesn't mean we are right, but it should give you pause to consider HONESTLY what all this really means...

It MEANS that you cant say child abuse is always universally and absolutely wrong, but a theist can and MEAN IT. I'm very sorry, I do know its not a pleasant thought, but it IS the truth and a troll wouldn't take the time to TALK and REASON...

So ...can anyone think of a situation where child abuse is GOOD? Or do you agree it is universally and absolutely wrong?
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31-10-2014, 06:51 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 06:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 06:32 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Im not the one running scared Smile Im the one PROUDLY saying child abuse is ALWAYS wrong despite anyone's opinion... and you disagree.


If you don't agree with me that child abuse is NEVER GOOD despite a social construct condoning it, explain to me why you simply don't believe THEY are WRONG, and also please explain when it is GOOD to abuse a child... if its NEVER good then this IS a universal absolute moral truth


I obviously don't read apologists... cant stand them. In my opinion most of them are as wrong as you are when you say theres no absolute truth Wink

I go to the sources whenever possible, not some blogger.

As expected, you did not understand what I said. Murder, rape, child abuse, theft, mayhem, and so on are considered wrong in every human society. The boundaries of the definitions vary a bit.

But that is true because of our evolved social instincts.

Where do your absolutes exist? If there were no humans, would those absolutes exist?

Here is the difference between us dude... You consider it a social standard and you believe the social standard determines whether or not abuse is wrong. I say it is ALWAYS WRONG universally and absolutely and those who deem it good are simply very wrong. That is how we differ.

I believe the universally moral truth is larger than society or even the world as do ALL theists to my knowledge. Don't you believe people can be "wrong" in their morals? Don't you agree with me those who deem child abuse as good, are simply wrong and that this doesn't make it good, and there is no tipping point where it BECOMES good? If you do, you believe in absolute universal moral truth.
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31-10-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 06:46 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I am going to issue a challenge. The next one that says I'm just a troll, or don't know my science, or don't know math... be prepared to take me on in a one on one debate. I hereby challenge the next one who makes such a claim. The debate:

"God created" is more scientifically sound and MUCH better tested AND fared better in testing, than the Big Bang/String theory.

I will defend "God created", YOU defend Big Bang/String... open challenge and definiately applies to anyone who thinks my science isn't up to yours.

Now... back to the topic..

You guys need to know this isn't personal, so you don't have to continue tryint to MAKE it personal... Iv not insulted a one of you and I don't intend to. I'm here to talk

I TOLD YOU I had honest points of discussion and HONEST CHALLENGES to your belief. I never lied to you and that's why I'm here... to TALK about these differences and discuss their ramifications.

The fact that 90 percent of the world differs with you on absolute moral truth doesn't mean we are right, but it should give you pause to consider HONESTLY what all this really means...

It MEANS that you cant say child abuse is always universally and absolutely wrong, but a theist can and MEAN IT. I'm very sorry, I do know its not a pleasant thought, but it IS the truth and a troll wouldn't take the time to TALK and REASON...

So ...can anyone think of a situation where child abuse is GOOD? Or do you agree it is universally and absolutely wrong?

Wow, way to ignore every single thing everyone said in this thread.

And yes, here's a situation: child abuse is good for people who think it is good. Not for me. How is that a problem now?

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31-10-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
You apparently don't bother reading responses.
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