Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
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31-10-2014, 07:19 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:13 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:11 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Point out one single thing iv ignored and then point out where you've answered a question in this thread Smile

I've done that before but it didn't work, did it?

Not to mention it happened just now. You quote my answer to your question and say something irrelevant.

It wasn't irrelevant. Smile You believe child abuse is good for those who deem it good. Why do you not believe those deeming it good are simply WRONG and that this needs to stop NOW? You believe children should be subjected to abuse because some people deem it good? Why isn't it simply WRONG? Smile
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31-10-2014, 07:24 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:15 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  This is my last thread... and the reason the first 2 were used as a base... Here's my beef with Atheism... aside from the fact they don't seem to be as receptive to critical thought as they say they are, and some of them seem a bit paranoid charging someone with trolling simply because they disagree and want to discuss it...

You don't believe in universal absolute truths. This was the reason for the 2nd thread... to demonstrate that you don't with your own words.

This means I can say with assurance and conviction that no matter the time, no matter the place, no matter the circumstance, no matter if anyone agrees with it or not, Child Abuse and Rape is ALWAYS WRONG... but you cant say this with conviction because it is an absolute universal truth. Location in time and space mean nothing... child abuse and rape is not good. Circumstances mean nothing, social acceptance means nothing except the perps are WRONG if they deem it to be a good thing.

Since the atheist doesn't believe in universal absolute truth... you cant say this as I can and hold to it as a conviction. If you were to say "Child abuse is NEVER GOOD"... you would be admitting to an absolute truth, which you claim doesn't exist.

Hey brain bitten.
Define "child abuse".
Since every human being has different ideas about what that means, exactly,
and where the boundaries are exactly, there goes your shit out the window.
Please keep you absolute promise that this is your absolute last post.
Absolute fucking idiot.
I'd like to redact my previous point and attach it to this question instead: (Thank you Bucky.)

What is abuse?
What is good?

Actually, now that we're getting down to it:
What is a child? Is your absolute moral truth somehow worse when done to a three year old than a fifteen year old?
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31-10-2014, 07:26 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:15 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  This is my last thread... and the reason the first 2 were used as a base... Here's my beef with Atheism... aside from the fact they don't seem to be as receptive to critical thought as they say they are, and some of them seem a bit paranoid charging someone with trolling simply because they disagree and want to discuss it...

You don't believe in universal absolute truths. This was the reason for the 2nd thread... to demonstrate that you don't with your own words.

This means I can say with assurance and conviction that no matter the time, no matter the place, no matter the circumstance, no matter if anyone agrees with it or not, Child Abuse and Rape is ALWAYS WRONG... but you cant say this with conviction because it is an absolute universal truth. Location in time and space mean nothing... child abuse and rape is not good. Circumstances mean nothing, social acceptance means nothing except the perps are WRONG if they deem it to be a good thing.

Since the atheist doesn't believe in universal absolute truth... you cant say this as I can and hold to it as a conviction. If you were to say "Child abuse is NEVER GOOD"... you would be admitting to an absolute truth, which you claim doesn't exist.

Hey brain bitten.
Define "child abuse".
Since every human being has different ideas about what that means, exactly,
and where the boundaries are exactly, there goes your shit out the window.
Please keep you absolute promise that this is your absolute last post.
Absolute fucking idiot.

I say any abuse of a child is wrong... that's simple enough isn't it?
Lets make this easy and you tell me what types of child abuse you find acceptable and good.
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31-10-2014, 07:27 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
Okay... just enough time to give one last, full response before toddling off to work etc....

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Again, I really do appreciate you talking about this and reasoning with me... Thank you Smile

You're welcome. Smile


(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  So in the instance you give me here, you believe that *redacted yo comply with forum guide-lines* in this particular situation is good? Because in some parts of the world it is practiced?

*Sigh* No that is not what I am posting. YOU are saying that absolute moral truths exist THEREFORE it is ALWAYS bad for puppies and kitties to die.

I am responding with "Well.. here are cases in the world where kitties and puppies die, hence your proposed absolute moral truth CANNOT hold. Since it is shown the be not in existence in said cases."

Now, do you see the differences in the above statements, or do you not?

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  You don't insist that they are simply morally wrong and it is absolutely WRONG? I'm not being incredulous, I'm clarifying so I don't misrepresent you.

Um.. that actually seems (To me on limited time( to be doing the opposite. Consider

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Yes this overbearing being would be the one who is insisting that child abuse is wrong... ALWAYS. Whereas your view holds that sometimes its good. Which prevailing view do you think would make a child feel most secure? The one saying its sometimes good or the one saying its never good?

Um.. so, now if I am reading you correctly, it's okay and hence absolutely morally true and good for said over arching being to KILL KITTIES and PUPPIES.... Because said over arching being kills kitties and puppies....

But it's not okay to and hence absolutely and morally true to just rape kitties and puppies... because there's currently no evidence that said over arching being rapes kitties and puppies...? Blink

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I honestly don't believe in many shades of grey.

Awe... that's kind of sad. Sad


(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I believe truth exists, I believe lies exist.

The above statement, however, makes no comment or point about any absolutes, so there's that.

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I believe its black and white that child abuse is always wrong.

We're in agreement here, so that's a bonus. Smile

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  As in... yes child abuse is ALWAYS wrong Smile

I've got that. HOWEVER it has been shown to you that YOUR position has,

A) Not always been the case.

B) Is not in all places currently the case

Hence.. it's something WE share... but reality about us does not necessarily comply with.

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I AM proud of my belief and to be able to just say this with conviction

But... your belief does not make it true, as I said above, so there's that.

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  .... not to sound superior whatsoever...

I was tempted to edit that out so that you don't sound superior and what ever. Tongue

(31-10-2014 07:04 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ;)Just to share it is a freedom within itself to know there are these constants that are nurturing and protective.

Um... any constraints are in no way giving freedom.... Hence the two different words... Unless you meant something else? Though it kind of reads to me "Oh! i am so happy and free in my bondage!".

Weird, a little kinky, but weird.

So... again, my suggestion is to shift to kitties and puppies, not the other thing since it's a naughty thing to do on this forum.

Address the previous comments about "False Dilemma" (Sorry for my link not working). Sort out your sentence and the lines of information they portray, as in keep things consistent.

Some times you seem to be jumping about with your thoughts as they are presented.

As for your other thoughts on reality and evidence and stuff? Yeah, I can see why you'd want to start new threads on them. Smile

Much cheers to all.
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31-10-2014, 07:27 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Hey brain bitten.
Define "child abuse".
Since every human being has different ideas about what that means, exactly,
and where the boundaries are exactly, there goes your shit out the window.
Please keep you absolute promise that this is your absolute last post.
Absolute fucking idiot.

I say any abuse of a child is wrong... that's simple enough isn't it?
Lets make this easy and you tell me what types of child abuse you find acceptable and good.
We are discussing your interpretation of morality and behaviour. You need to define your terms in order to progress the discussion and get a definitive answer.
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31-10-2014, 07:29 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:19 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:13 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  I've done that before but it didn't work, did it?

Not to mention it happened just now. You quote my answer to your question and say something irrelevant.

It wasn't irrelevant. Smile You believe child abuse is good for those who deem it good. Why do you not believe those deeming it good are simply WRONG and that this needs to stop NOW? You believe children should be subjected to abuse because some people deem it good? Why isn't it simply WRONG? Smile

Common opinion agrees that it is wrong, there is no outside universal, objective force that controls these opinions.
You want us to agree that it is god that controls human morality, we don't agree to that and it frustrates you.
Because you want it to be so does not make it so.
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31-10-2014, 07:30 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:10 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  To say child abuse is NEVER good is in fact both universal and absolute. Time or space doesn't effect the wrongness of it, and it is absolutely true in every case... this is a universal absolute moral truth. If its true that it is NEVER good it is ABSOLUTELY true... it is then a moral that transcends both social acceptance or popular opinion... It is still wrong even if every human on earth said it was good. So how do you justify a universal moral absolute truth? How is it that a truth exists that transcends man?

What? That's your stance, not mine. How do you justify it?

God made it universally true that child abuse is always wrong in my opinion Smile And why is your stance not the same as mine then? I thought you said child abuse was never good? Now youre saying that's wrong? Or you agree that child abuse is universally absolutely NEVER morally GOOD ? Im confused as to your opinion now, what is it?
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31-10-2014, 07:32 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
Sorry, saw your reply to some one else after I'd replied to something else you'd posted.


(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I say any abuse of a child is wrong... that's simple enough isn't it?

But... that is NOT the same as saying

(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Universal Truth Exists, hence *redacted to comply with forum guide-lines* is wrong"

See the difference between the two?

(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Lets make this easy and you tell me what types of child abuse you find acceptable and good.

And...AGAIN... most replies are NOT saying that.. it only seems to be yourself who's answering yourself with the above statement.

P.S. Change the line to kitties and puppies, please? It makes things so much easier.

Much cheers to all.
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31-10-2014, 07:43 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:32 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Sorry, saw your reply to some one else after I'd replied to something else you'd posted.


(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I say any abuse of a child is wrong... that's simple enough isn't it?

But... that is NOT the same as saying

(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Universal Truth Exists, hence *redacted to comply with forum guide-lines* is wrong"

See the difference between the two?

(31-10-2014 07:26 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Lets make this easy and you tell me what types of child abuse you find acceptable and good.

And...AGAIN... most replies are NOT saying that.. it only seems to be yourself who's answering yourself with the above statement.

P.S. Change the line to kitties and puppies, please? It makes things so much easier.

Much cheers to all.

Heya, and thanks very much again Smile

One poster has said this "And yes, here's a situation: child abuse is good for people who think it is good. Not for me. How is that a problem now?"

So yes some replies ARE saying this. Heres the point. If something is true without exception, regardless of time, location, circumstance or popular opinion and social construct, It is universally absolutely true. Easy right? The atheists who have spoken up for the most part admit they don't believe in absolute universal moral truth. "It is never good to abuse a child" is a moral absolute, universal truth in my opinion, regardless of any social acceptance or opinion. If one believes there is no exception they believe in absolute universal truth. If they don't believe in universal truth, they are left to explain when child abuse would be deemed "good". I see this as quite a moral dilemma. Several have stated that its ok to those who deem it ok... I just posted one of the quotes, so we cant say this philosophy doesn't exist among atheists, and it is the antithesis of the opinion of 90 percent of the world.

For these reasons and more, I believe this is worth taking an honest second look to consider the ramificaitons...
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31-10-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:30 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  What? That's your stance, not mine. How do you justify it?

God made it universally true that child abuse is always wrong in my opinion Smile And why is your stance not the same as mine then? I thought you said child abuse was never good? Now youre saying that's wrong? Or you agree that child abuse is universally absolutely NEVER morally GOOD ? Im confused as to your opinion now, what is it?

You must first clearly define what you mean by 'god'.
You must then provide sufficient evidence that a god even exists before you can claim it controls anything.
Ignore me again.
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