Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
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31-10-2014, 09:11 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
You do know the god of the OT said parents can stone to death their disobedient kids.
That's not abusive. Oh no. Not at all. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-10-2014, 09:52 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2014 10:57 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:15 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  This means I can say with assurance and conviction that no matter the time, no matter the place, no matter the circumstance, no matter if anyone agrees with it or not, Child Abuse and Rape is ALWAYS WRONG... but you cant say this with conviction because it is an absolute universal truth. Location in time and space mean nothing... child abuse and rape is not good. Circumstances mean nothing, social acceptance means nothing except the perps are WRONG if they deem it to be a good thing.

Problem 1: In a universe without children, would child-abuse being wrong still be an 'absolute truth'?

Problem 2: You lack imagination.

Are there scenarios where child abuse could be the lesser evil, or perhaps even a good? Certainty, just like how killing another person under the right circumstances can be. What if the child is abusing another younger child, and the only way to stop them is physically? What if that child is about to kill you or someone else?

Now lets get really creative. Say you are being held hostage by a mad genius, and he will let you go, but you have to make a choice. You captor has developed the cure for cancer, and he will share it with you and the world, provided you play his game; and he wants you to assault a defenseless child. What is the temporary well-being of that one child measured against the suffering that will be both alleviated and prevented the world over?

The fact that we can even contemplate such scenarios means that you've already failed.


Problem 3: You lack objectivity.

How do you measure moral objectivity? I certainly hope you don't hide behind a Bible, because we can pull that contradictory mess of parables and fables apart far too easily, we all know too much about it's all too human origins to do otherwise. Simply put, unless you have an objective method for determining and measuring moral objectivity, you don't have a leg to stand on.


Just because you're too color blind to see the world in anything other than black and white doesn't mean the rest of us are obliged to be just as blind and ignorant as you.

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31-10-2014, 10:05 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
Many cultures practiced child sacrifice, including the early Hebrews. They certainly thought it was not only ok, but a good and moral thing to do.
In fact, they even had a myth in which ole Abe was asked to burn up his kiddo for Abe's god. They seem to have thought that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Oh oh. Back to the drawing board.

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31-10-2014, 10:23 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:15 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Since the atheist doesn't believe in universal absolute truth... you cant say this as I can and hold to it as a conviction. If you were to say "Child abuse is NEVER GOOD"... you would be admitting to an absolute truth, which you claim doesn't exist.
The burying beetle often eats some of its young offspring.
If universal truth were real then it would never be good because obviously eating a child is a form of child abuse.
However, evolution has favoured those burying beetles that eat their young. This evolutionary behaviour has developed to be the norm amongst burying beetles. Those that didn't partake of this feast lost in the evolutionary battle for survival.

If survival is considered Good then for the burying beetle it is good to abuse their offspring by eating some of them.


The problem with many religions is their unfounded belief in universal truths coupled with their unquestioning unthinking following of their spiritual leaders. They get told that it is wrong to use contraceptives or wrong to be gay or wrong to believe in other gods. Then they go around and do despicable things by forcing their beliefs onto others. They look to persecute gays, or make people in AIDs ridden countries feel bad about using protection against STDs. They set out on crusades and kill unbelievers etc. All for the sake of their belief in universal Good.
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31-10-2014, 10:32 PM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 10:05 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Many cultures practiced child sacrifice, including the early Hebrews. They certainly thought it was not only ok, but a good and moral thing to do.
In fact, they even had a myth in which ole Abe was asked to burn up his kiddo for Abe's god. They seem to have thought that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
Oh oh. Back to the drawing board.
Isn't there a Christian fable about some guy called Abraham whom was approached by his "perfect", "can do no wrong" god whom demanded Abraham kill his son.
Abraham did as he was asked, he went out with full intent, got a murder weapon, pinned his son down, did a big wind up and was fully committed to murder his kid. If it weren't for an angel's interference Abraham would have murdered his son. Isn't this fable used as a case for Christian's to praise how great Abraham was for being willing to do what he is told. It seems that if the Christian god want's you to partake of child abuse then it is good in the context of Christian Good.

Also wasn't there cases in the OT of Moses commanding his armies to rape the young virgin girls, of some fathers forcing their daughters to be raped
Quote:While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”

23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this disgraceful thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don’t do such a disgraceful thing.”
It seems that child abuse is Christian Good as long as the child is a girl.
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01-11-2014, 02:50 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
WTF?! There's no cheese, there's no upside-down dogs - you peeps leave it up to me, ya know what's gonna happen..

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01-11-2014, 02:59 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 05:59 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  In other words, you don't believe it is universally true that child abuse is wrong... which as you see is my beef with atheism... and 90 percent of the world disagrees with you heartily.

(31-10-2014 05:59 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  So you don't think they are simply "wrong" and that it is universally true... which world do you think a child would feel safer in... the one that said it is ALWAYS wrong, or the one that says its sometimes good?

See this is where you are deliberately equivocating and trolling. By saying that I do not believe in a universal absolute morality you are now trying to make it look like I personally approve of child abuse. You are using emotional blackmail to argue your point rather than relying on the strength of your argument.

Of course a child is safer in the west. But that doesn't disagree with what I previously said. Of course I abhor child abuse but that also doesn't agree with what I previously said.

We each have our own morality and that is based upon a mix of nature and nurture. Nature because of our species and nurture because of how we were raised.
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01-11-2014, 03:17 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 03:41 AM by Mathilda.)
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:30 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  God made it universally true that child abuse is always wrong in my opinion Smile

How did he do that?
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01-11-2014, 04:28 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(01-11-2014 03:17 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:30 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  God made it universally true that child abuse is always wrong in my opinion Smile

How did he do that?

He wrote about it in his good book.

No, wait.

He said the opposite.

Wolfie, may I introduce you to your god, murderer of first born, Job's kids and rock-dash advocate.

I think you guys haven't met, your god is the one who fucked Joe's wife when she was still a virgin (so she claimed).

Rape is wrong, according to that book, unless you get the fathers' permission in advance.
Oh! And rape of slaves is fine, naturally.

Wolfie,
What makes you think the Universe gives a shit about humans and what horrors we do to each other?

Someone in your past lied to you.

You are a victim of child abuse.

You have my sympathy

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01-11-2014, 07:24 AM
RE: Either Universal Truth Exists, or Child Abuse and Rape is Sometimes Good
(31-10-2014 07:44 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 07:30 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  God made it universally true that child abuse is always wrong in my opinion Smile And why is your stance not the same as mine then? I thought you said child abuse was never good? Now youre saying that's wrong? Or you agree that child abuse is universally absolutely NEVER morally GOOD ? Im confused as to your opinion now, what is it?

You must first clearly define what you mean by 'god'.
You must then provide sufficient evidence that a god even exists before you can claim it controls anything.
Ignore me again.

God is not the topic of this thread, atheist thought is being examined here, and its uptimate ramifications... Smile. This has nothing to do with GOD... it has to do with the atheists inability to believe it is NEVER GOOD to abuse a child... you cant change the topic of this thread just because youre uncomfortable with it.

I thought you people weren't afraid to have your belief honestly challenged Wink

Wats wrong? Looks like most of you posting DO have a problem with it.
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