ElevatorGate, Feminism, and all that good stuff...
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12-07-2011, 06:47 AM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2011 07:02 AM by DeepThought.)
ElevatorGate, Feminism, and all that good stuff...
Wow.... I'm no drama queen and I am not going talk about this whole thing directly.

I just feel a little underwhelmed at the spectacle. It's like the skeptic/freethinking community has too much pent up energy so one little thing happens and you get a massive shit storm.

To me it just looks like the 6 o'clock news has run out of things to say so they are reporting what brand of underwear Rosie O'Donnell is wearing.

If you don't know what i'm talking about click here!

And on latest news:



“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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12-07-2011, 12:05 PM
RE: ElevatorGate
Well that's pretty.... retarded. People have so little to talk about I guess. Hey me either, so let's discuss.

Poor girl, I'm not sure why she can't say screw off pervy guys without getting harassed about it. I'm also not entirely sure why Richard Dawkins thinks she should stop whining. But what really confuses me is why people think that because Mr. Dawkins does one thing they don't personally agree with, they should completely disown him. I personally don't give a rats ass what he thinks about it. Or anyone else for that matter. Dawkins still has done a lot for the cause of awareness whether he does something someone doesn't like or not. No take backs people.

I actually wrote him an email once upon a time ago thanking him for having the gall to even want to put himself in the public eye on such a topic. I mentioned that I don't really care why, whether it be purely monetary or egotistical. It really doesn't matter if the end result is more awareness.

Also I have no idea who this chick is. Not that I don't agree with her. I just don't know her is all. Matter of fact I hadn't even heard of elevatorgate until you came along deep.

Not sure why this is even news. Crazy little world we live in isn't it? By the way news channels and internet were you aware that there are wars being fought all over the damn place, torture happens all the time, and poverty is a way of life for the majority of people on this planet? But nevermind Richard Dawkins sent a letter in poor taste. Lol, funny little world. I can see why it would bother you because it bothers me for the same reason.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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12-07-2011, 07:50 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2011 08:48 PM by DeepThought.)
RE: ElevatorGate
One of the things that has been surprising me lately is the level of hostility these sorts of things create. I'm not saying atheists should stick together and agree on everything.

It's just I don't see a reason to fight and take these things to extremes. It's making mountains out of molehills. These little things are polarizing the community into 2 camps - which I don't see as rational. Isn't it possible to disagree without the petty squabbles?

I'm thinking of things happening on youtube as well: Condell - Coughlan - Thunderf00t - etc..

Religion is known to cause this kind of division over petty bullshit. It seems some people need to sort out their priorities and spent their time and energy on things that are more worthwhile.

It boggles the mind how many hours people would have wasted on this bullshit (probably a few centuries worth by now). I wonder how much time Richard Dawkins wasted on this crap that would have been better spent elsewhere. Imagine what could be accomplished if that time/energy was spent elsewhere.


Edit: Looks like what I said has already been said.. I feel a little more sane now.




“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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12-07-2011, 09:01 PM
RE: ElevatorGate
It's definetly not one of humanities best traits, to focus on the tiny things instead of the bigger picture. Oh well. I'm going to go have some cereal for a snack. Thumbs up if you agree.Wink

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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12-07-2011, 09:43 PM
RE: ElevatorGate
(12-07-2011 09:01 PM)lucradis Wrote:  It's definetly not one of humanities best traits, to focus on the tiny things instead of the bigger picture.

i agree... it is why "we" will not be the ones to get off this rock.




“We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.” Orson Welles
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13-07-2011, 08:07 AM
RE: ElevatorGate
I've followed all this a little and the bottom line is - yes too much has been made of some of this but it is a good opportunity to converse about the topics of sexism, discrimination, and equality. Rebecca Watson (who made the original video and comment that started the aforementioned shit storm) is a co-host of The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe podcast (a favorite of mine) and blogger for Skepchick. The tragedy of all this is not in her original comments (which were, as she admits, nonchalant and more of an afterthought), but rather in the drama and flippant remarks made in response to them - including those made by Richard Dawkins.

For an excellent take on all this you can read this blog entry by Greta Christina.

As skeptics and rationalists, we should be willing to consider what's being said on this subject, and perhaps not simply dismiss it as "internet drama" - though some of it certainly is. To look at a similar situation that might hit closer to some of us here - do those of us in free countries not have a right to complain about religious influence just because there are people in other countries who would be killed and tortured for far less?

I'm not interested in creating more drama, but I'm also not interested in telling someone to just "get over" something that they deem important - and by listening and reading these opinions, we give people the opportunity to demonstrate why something might be important after all and not such a little thing.

Our brains deceive us on a regular basis, so we have to find ways to fight back.
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13-07-2011, 08:30 AM
RE: ElevatorGate
I do agree that it's good to bring up the treatment of women. Guys really don't realize how bad this stuff can be for just our average daily life. There's a lot of small oppressions that seem perfectly normal to people not dealing with the bad side. It's not like the guys question was a big deal but she had had enough before, you all know what a six percent event is I'm sure. She's telling her fans not to hit on her, cause I'm sure they do.

This should not be a big deal like it is though. All groups do this. I have to deal with a huge amount of this bullshit (though I ignore it or just mention the idiocy of it all) in the transgender community especially the transsexual vs transgender conversations. You cannot avoid drama with people so just ignore it, eventually everyone will forget it ever happened. I've never had a serious issue due to ignoring the drama in my groups. Just ignore it because it will happen no matter what.

And if I piss you off when I come to vent, you can be mad but I won't really respond to you if it seems all that dramatic. I seriously don't care, sometimes I just want to vent.

People love to make schisms, they'll get over it in a few months and forget there were ever camps. Really don't worry about it at all.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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13-07-2011, 09:07 AM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2011 02:34 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: ElevatorGate
....So, a whole lot of people have just summited a molehill.... again.
I suspect this kind of obsession with little stuff is an escape mechanism when we feel overwhelmed by the big stuff. And when people decide to become emotional about something they choose as an issue, they can work themselves up into quite a state. Like that last guy*(!!?? Could he not see the quantum leap from the clip he showed and his reaction to it?), or like a 2-year-old having a really satisfying tantrum, turning blue and drumming his heels on the carpet. (Or - dare i make this comparison? - an ecstatic revivalist speaking in tongues and falling down.) It must be cathartic, and i suppose there is much in our lives these days that we want to purge.
eta * Not dear Carl Sagan, the Glenn Beck clone. On further consideration, his rant sounds personal, like an attack on all the women who ever turned him down, or arrogated to themselves the right to say when, where and how they prefer not to be approached. Women in the public eye are fair game? I'm not sure, but if he thinks "Guys, don't do that." is lambasting, he's never been lambasted.

More seriously, though, i am concerned about the whole idea of an atheist community that's perceived as following a few highly publicized leaders, gurus and spokespersons, whose every word and action reflects on every single person who doesn't buy into the faith industry. It comes far too close to the god-brigade's depiction of atheism as a militant cult. This trend will not end well.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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13-07-2011, 05:36 PM
RE: ElevatorGate
(13-07-2011 09:07 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Women in the public eye are fair game? I'm not sure, but if he thinks "Guys, don't do that." is lambasting, he's never been lambasted.
I think it's the "thanks for showing your misogyny" line that created most of the backlash against her.

(13-07-2011 09:07 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  More seriously, though, i am concerned about the whole idea of an atheist community that's perceived as following a few highly publicized leaders, gurus and spokespersons, whose every word and action reflects on every single person who doesn't buy into the faith industry. It comes far too close to the god-brigade's depiction of atheism as a militant cult. This trend will not end well.
Yes, that bothers me too. As well as the willingness to polarize over little things, which is also a trait known among religious sects. Sometimes I think we aren't so much fighting religion as we are fighting human nature... I don't know.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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13-07-2011, 07:11 PM
RE: ElevatorGate
Could I get, like, a one sentence TL;DR of this? I read two full stories and I still don't get it. Maybe I am just immune to stupid shit by now but... what the hell is going on exactly?

Guy asked girl for coffee and girl freaks out about women power? I don't get it? Shouldn't she take what happened as a compliment?

"We Humans are capable of greatness." -Carl Sagan
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