Emergent Complexity
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06-04-2013, 01:38 PM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 01:42 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: Emergent Complexity
(06-04-2013 01:12 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 12:40 PM)Adenosis Wrote:  It would have definitely been increasing in complexity since the beginning of time. This wouldn't last forever though, eventually we would see a general decrease in complexity I'd say, as stars die out, life becomes impossible to form, and black holes form that eat up all that delicious complexity.

There is likey more to reality then the observable universe.

There is almost certainly galaxies beyond our view, but do you expect the unobservable universe to be much different?

Or wait, are you talking about some other dimensions/realms (heaven, hell)? We have no reason to believe such things exist.

Edit: speaking of emergent complexity... Perhaps there is much less to the universe than we think, not more Wink

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06-04-2013, 06:48 PM
RE: Emergent Complexity



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07-04-2013, 01:33 AM
RE: Emergent Complexity
(06-04-2013 01:38 PM)Adenosis Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 01:12 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  There is likey more to reality then the observable universe.

There is almost certainly galaxies beyond our view, but do you expect the unobservable universe to be much different?

Or wait, are you talking about some other dimensions/realms (heaven, hell)? We have no reason to believe such things exist.

Edit: speaking of emergent complexity... Perhaps there is much less to the universe than we think, not more Wink

There is some evidence now that suggest the universe isn't homogeneous on the largest of scales as previously thought.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/space...s-universe

But that's really besides the point. Modern cosmology suggests that there is more to reality then what we observe. Now I am not talking about heaven or hell but things like "the bulk" from brane cosmology, or other multi verse models. I don't buy arguments from Krauss and others that the universe emerged spontaneously out of nothing. If you listen to his lectures or read his books, its obvious he assumes a pre-existing framework of physical laws. Pre-existing laws require reality and I assume reality is eternal. Emergence happens in reality and I don't find the notion of eternal emergence to be farfetched. What would eternal emergence look like? I think it would look a lot like God.

Now I could be wrong. It could be that emergence starts, runs a course, ends and then starts all over again. Suppose reality is just the universe, and it cycles from big bang, expansion, contraction, big bang again. In such a reality there would not be no eternal emergence.
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07-04-2013, 02:36 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2013 03:02 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Emergent Complexity
(07-04-2013 01:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Modern cosmology suggests that there is more to reality then what we observe.

Duh. Genius.

(07-04-2013 01:33 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Now I am not talking about heaven or hell but things like "the bulk" from brane cosmology, or other multi verse models. I don't buy arguments from Krauss and others that the universe emerged spontaneously out of nothing. If you listen to his lectures or read his books, its obvious he assumes a pre-existing framework of physical laws. Pre-existing laws require reality and I assume reality is eternal. Emergence happens in reality and I don't find the notion of eternal emergence to be farfetched. What would eternal emergence look like? I think it would look a lot like God.

I KNEW you would get to the god shit from your "emergence" bullshit. There is not a shred of evidence for it. It's just conjecture on your part with no evidence. You are wrong about Krauss. I asked him the very question at a conference, and he said nothing of the sort you are asserting. You obviously can't understand his books.

All the Cosmological argument says is there is a cause. There could be a googleplex of levels of designers. The creator-designer of this universe could be intelligent life from another universe, created by another level of non-deity intelligence etc etc etc. Your presumption that the ONLY cause, or the proximate cause HAS to be a god is totally illogical and unfounded. That goes for your "set of laws" also. The laws of Physics and Chemistry in this universe could be an emergent property from the way the universe formed. You don't know. No one knows (yet). To invoke the "god of the gaps" baloney yet again is so old and tired.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-04-2013, 02:39 AM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2013 11:07 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Emergent Complexity
(05-04-2013 06:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 06:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Don't feed the trolls.

You ever find those examples of theists turning emergent complexity into intelligent design? I didn't think so.

You just did. Complexity arises spontaneously in this universe. Chaos Theory proves it. It requires no gods. You can speculate from now till kingdom come about why. You got nuthin here.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-04-2013, 03:19 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2013 03:42 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Emergent Complexity
(07-04-2013 02:39 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 06:44 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You ever find those examples of theists turning emergent complexity into intelligent design? I didn't think so.

You just did. Troll. Complexity arises spontaneously in this universe. Choas Theory proves it. It requires no gods. You can speculate from now till kingdom come about why. You got nuthin here.

I did not. You don't understand the difference between intelligent design and emergent complexity. Your reading comprehension/critical thinking skills are so poor that you conflate a discussion about God with asserted works of God. I'm beginning to conclude that you lack the necessary intelligence to carry on a meaningful conversation. There is no shame in not being smart. That may explain why you continually rely on insults instead of substantive arguments.....and for that....you should feel ashamed.
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07-04-2013, 03:43 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2013 03:58 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: Emergent Complexity
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07-04-2013, 04:14 AM
RE: Emergent Complexity
Many definitions of complexity tend to postulate or assume that complexity expresses a condition of numerous elements in a system and numerous forms of relationships among the elements. However, what one sees as complex and what one sees as simple is relative and changes with time.

What you see as complex, I see as simple, which has been extensively proven with every one of your posts.

Simplicity - emergent understanding of the seemingly complex

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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07-04-2013, 04:48 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2013 07:28 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Emergent Complexity

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-04-2013, 12:25 PM
RE: Emergent Complexity
(05-04-2013 05:34 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 03:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No troll. I know what emergent complexity is. My point was that inevitably you theist trolls conflate it with ID, and use it to prove your god(s), and you have already done so in your first stupid thread here. So besides posting this stuff that everyone already knows, was there a ppoint to all this crap, or are you just creating another idiot thread, as you have nothing better to do, no friends, no family, no life, and spend all day every day trolling this site ?

Can you provide one example from a theist other than myself who even talked about emergent complexity in this forum?

Also I forgive you for calling me a troll and for spreading lies about my social life.
You realize there is a search feature on the forum right? Simply put in Emergent Complexity and walla, dozens and dozens of threads spawn up. Ones even in reference to videos of Tyson and with similar responses of yours.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...complexity

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...complexity

As in troll fashion, if somebody doesn't beat you over the head with it.. they will cry as if it's impossible for them to figure out.

So yes, it's another troll thread based on false assumptions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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