Empty space? Big bang?
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08-05-2012, 02:43 AM
Empty space? Big bang?
There something I'm hoping you guys can help me ponder on.

I was thinking about 'atoms' the other day.

And I got to thinking about how atoms are mostly empty space. (Well, theoretically).

My question is:

Did that empty space exist before the big bang? If so is that the same empty space before the big bang?

Was it a vacuum less void? If so then that means there had to be time Outside, before the big bang. Right?

Or was that empty space inside the big bang?

Help me out here.

Forget Jesus. Stars died so you could live.-Lawrence Krauss

For god loved the world so much he tortured his only begotten son, gave him a 3 day nap only to wake up in ultimate awesomeness and called it a sacrifice.
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08-05-2012, 05:05 AM
RE: Empty space? Big bang?
(08-05-2012 02:43 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  There something I'm hoping you guys can help me ponder on.

I was thinking about 'atoms' the other day.

And I got to thinking about how atoms are mostly empty space. (Well, theoretically).

My question is:

Did that empty space exist before the big bang? If so is that the same empty space before the big bang?

Was it a vacuum less void? If so then that means there had to be time Outside, before the big bang. Right?

Or was that empty space inside the big bang?

Help me out here.
Who knows?

I know that's not helpful, but science is based on observation. There's no way to observe pre-Big Bang conditions, at least not yet. The Big Bang itself is a theory because it makes testable predictions, but could those predictions actually be based on a different model? Perhaps. We're simply drawing the most logical conclusions based on the evidence at hand.

It is believed that what we currently see as "empty space" is part of the physical universe that is expanding from the big bang. What's "outside" of the big bang? I've postulated that there's nothing there and no way to observe or travel outside our universe, but again, this isn't based on observable evidence. Some posit there are other universes out there (the multiverse) but instead of or in addition to being outside the boundaries of our universe, those others universes could be on top of ours in other dimensions or in a series --- as soon as one universe ends it collapses to get replaced by another universe, which is eventually replaced by another universe.

Who knows?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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08-05-2012, 11:52 AM
RE: Empty space? Big bang?
(08-05-2012 02:43 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  There something I'm hoping you guys can help me ponder on.

I was thinking about 'atoms' the other day.

And I got to thinking about how atoms are mostly empty space. (Well, theoretically).

My question is:

Did that empty space exist before the big bang? If so is that the same empty space before the big bang?

Was it a vacuum less void? If so then that means there had to be time Outside, before the big bang. Right?

Or was that empty space inside the big bang?

Help me out here.
"Nothing" is unstable as it turns out. The empty space inside atoms is stabilized by the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces. So, they are both nothing, but a different kind of nothing. Also, the question of time is inextricably linked to mass and space as it now exists. If string theory is even partially correct, subatomic "particles" can experience instant and spontaneous events where they shift energy states and configuration, and actually violate conservation rules. No time passing or energy input is required, so it is at least feasible that an unstable "nothing" that existed before the big bang instantaneously and spontaneously produced the event.

That is a gross oversimplification but the gist of what you are asking I believe.
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08-05-2012, 04:02 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2012 06:59 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Empty space? Big bang?
(08-05-2012 02:43 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  I was thinking about 'atoms' the other day.

In the merry merry month of May. Tongue

(08-05-2012 02:43 AM)"Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  And I got to thinking about how atoms are mostly empty space. (Well, theoretically).

My question is:

Did that empty space exist before the big bang? If so is that the same empty space before the big bang?

Was it a vacuum less void? If so then that means there had to be time Outside, before the big bang. Right?

Or was that empty space inside the big bang?

Help me out here.


I heard an analogy once, which said : If your were an atomic nucleus, living in Minneapolis, your electons would be in Chicago. It's almost ALL empty space.

Except, it's not empty. Quantum foam and all that. Dark Energy. Dark Matter. And actually in THIS universe, there no evidence for "nothing" .. or "emptiness". (Which apprears to render the "nothing can come from nothing" moot).

The unified dimensions of spacetime "crystalized" out as the the "Bang" unfolded. "Before" the BB, we don't know about anything, but if "time" began at the BB, as it appears to have done, given that space time are intimatley linked to the happening of THIS universe, speaking about "before" time has no meaning.

As I'm editing this I see hoc has made my point. "Nothingness" is a "philosophical construct". It's not really observed, in this universe. It's a pleasant fiction. Not verifed.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Political skeptic .. if there is a bad reason something bad might have happened, you can bet your ass, that's why it happened.
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08-05-2012, 04:06 PM
RE: Empty space? Big bang?
And yer basic proton is two up quarks, one down quark, and 98% "empty space." Tongue

Things like that, nothing, empty space, pretty much only philosophical concepts.

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