Engagement rings....WHY?
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06-01-2016, 01:12 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 11:47 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 11:36 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Oh, I get that. She may well get that too.

It's her mom and her dad thinking that he won't be a good husband because he's a cheapskate ... her co-workers and the ladies at the gym looking down on her for her poor choice in men ... like it or not, there's both direct and indirect pressure on men to spend a large sum of money -- money they may not have, money they have to borrow -- in order to satisfy many women, or their parents, or social standards that may or may not be explicit.

I get it that you're not one of those women. My girlfriend isn't, either. But there are many, many women who have imbibed the materialistic values imparted by DeBeers and their brutally efficient ad campaigns.

I think that is kind of old school thinking. My family and friends would never think that way about a man if I got a claddagh ring instead of a huge rock. If my family and friends saw how well I was treated by my fiance--that would be what was important to them and not the size of the ring. Additionally, if anyone said anything, I would explain to them it was my choice to have a more understated ring because I want to wear it all the time and I live an active lifestyle. I could give two fucks what my co-workers think. Also, I'm a vegan atheist, if I worried about people's opinions on how I choose to live my life, I would never leave my house Tongue

Sure, but again, it is a widespread sentiment, even if you don't yourself share it. I'm writing about society at large, not trying to impute anything specifically to you.
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06-01-2016, 01:14 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 12:30 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I would also consider getting a finger tattoo. I think a cool idea would be to have a his and her tattoo. I like the idea of the other person's name in hieroglyphics wrapped around the ring finger--or even just the initial. If you get a divorce, it would be small enough, you could easily turn into something else.

... except I'd put it on the middle finger, so that in the event of divorce the gesture would be very specific.
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06-01-2016, 01:15 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 12:07 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 11:59 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  OP there is no good reason to buy any jewelry ever. It has no function. The engagement ring has its traditional roots, but it is just another functionless item coveted by the masses as a social symbol.
Unless you had a signet ring. That is jewelry that serves a function.
Edit: or a decoder ring?

Or one of those poison rings the Medicis used on their former friends...
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06-01-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 01:12 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 11:47 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I think that is kind of old school thinking. My family and friends would never think that way about a man if I got a claddagh ring instead of a huge rock. If my family and friends saw how well I was treated by my fiance--that would be what was important to them and not the size of the ring. Additionally, if anyone said anything, I would explain to them it was my choice to have a more understated ring because I want to wear it all the time and I live an active lifestyle. I could give two fucks what my co-workers think. Also, I'm a vegan atheist, if I worried about people's opinions on how I choose to live my life, I would never leave my house Tongue

Sure, but again, it is a widespread sentiment, even if you don't yourself share it. I'm writing about society at large, not trying to impute anything specifically to you.

I understand that, but I'm saying I think you are painting a broad brush view of women/society. Already in this thread--Losty, Julep, Izel, and myself all said we are fine with something more simplistic in terms of rings.
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06-01-2016, 01:22 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 03:02 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  but at the same time, what expectation is laid upon the bride-to-be? Show up on time and say "I do".

Social expectations lay more burden upon the man than they do upon the woman, financially. Ever ask yourself why "going Dutch" is considered de classè, for a man? The tradition of a diamond ring as a symbol reduces a man to a dollar figure, in one sense. Much more attractive is the woman who appreciates the labor involved in earning that money to the extent that she doesn't wish to see it squandered on a bauble.

Whhhoaaa! Back the truck up. lol.

No. A bride does not just show up and say I do. I've NEVER in the many weddings I've attended seen a bride show up in her jeans and Tshirt and simply say "I do" and this is her only social expectation. I have seen a dude do this while the bride was all decked out though (just saying, everyone was okay with it at that wedding). In the end, the engagement and wedding price lays MORE on the female, traditionally. Traditionally speaking, the bride/ her family pays more for the occasion/ formalities/event.

Ever been to a wedding dress shop? Got your hair did as a woman (300% + mark up), got make up done, the shoes, the flowers? The engagement ring and suit rental are less.

Women pay more (traditionally).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/...ably-wont/

http://www.businessinsider.com/women-pay...do-2015-12

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/20...93952.html
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06-01-2016, 01:28 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 01:17 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:12 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Sure, but again, it is a widespread sentiment, even if you don't yourself share it. I'm writing about society at large, not trying to impute anything specifically to you.

I understand that, but I'm saying I think you are painting a broad brush view of women/society. Already in this thread--Losty, Julep, Izel, and myself all said we are fine with something more simplistic in terms of rings.

I hear you. I don't, however, think y'all are representative, insofar as you all are more thoughtful than the average.
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06-01-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 01:22 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 03:02 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  but at the same time, what expectation is laid upon the bride-to-be? Show up on time and say "I do".

Social expectations lay more burden upon the man than they do upon the woman, financially. Ever ask yourself why "going Dutch" is considered de classè, for a man? The tradition of a diamond ring as a symbol reduces a man to a dollar figure, in one sense. Much more attractive is the woman who appreciates the labor involved in earning that money to the extent that she doesn't wish to see it squandered on a bauble.

Whhhoaaa! Back the truck up. lol.

No. A bride does not just show up and say I do. I've NEVER in the many weddings I've attended seen a bride show up in her jeans and Tshirt and simply say "I do" and this is her only social expectation. I have seen a dude do this while the bride was all decked out though (just saying, everyone was okay with it at that wedding). In the end, the engagement and wedding price lays MORE on the female, traditionally. Traditionally speaking, the bride/ her family pays more for the occasion/ formalities/event.

Ever been to a wedding dress shop? Got your hair did as a woman (300% + mark up), got make up done, the shoes, the flowers? The engagement ring and suit rental are less.

Women pay more (traditionally).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/...ably-wont/

http://www.businessinsider.com/women-pay...do-2015-12

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/20...93952.html

I wouldn't mind it if she showed up informally, myself. And I wouldn't feel right forcing her or her family to foot the entire bill. When I wrote "show up and say 'I do'," I was oversimplifying, and my apologies for that.

Also -- if we did go to the extent of dressing formally for the occasion, I certainly wouldn't rent a suit. I'd buy it, so that I'd have it as a keepsake.
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06-01-2016, 01:40 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 01:30 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:22 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Whhhoaaa! Back the truck up. lol.

No. A bride does not just show up and say I do. I've NEVER in the many weddings I've attended seen a bride show up in her jeans and Tshirt and simply say "I do" and this is her only social expectation. I have seen a dude do this while the bride was all decked out though (just saying, everyone was okay with it at that wedding). In the end, the engagement and wedding price lays MORE on the female, traditionally. Traditionally speaking, the bride/ her family pays more for the occasion/ formalities/event.

Ever been to a wedding dress shop? Got your hair did as a woman (300% + mark up), got make up done, the shoes, the flowers? The engagement ring and suit rental are less.

Women pay more (traditionally).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/...ably-wont/

http://www.businessinsider.com/women-pay...do-2015-12

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/20...93952.html

I wouldn't mind it if she showed up informally, myself. And I wouldn't feel right forcing her or her family to foot the entire bill.

Also -- if we did go to the extent of dressing formally for the occasion, I certainly wouldn't rent a suit. I'd buy it, so that I'd have it as a keepsake.

Cool. And I don't need the most expensive rock, though I do appreciate a true gem. Wink


The thing is, out of this whole thread I think there are two separate engagement ring issues:

The cost: Most, if not all, people as the would-be receiver in this thread agree it's not important and as long as it's something the person likes aesthetically, then we're all good. (not saying that all in this world feel this way)

The meaning: Some appreciate the sentiment behind it and some do not, subjective to the giver/receiver. Some may worry that the cost is mixed with the feelings and meaning of the ring receiver. I'm curious if the cost were taken out of the equation and not be a factor, what would people really say about the social implication of wearing one or having their SO wear it? How would people feel then?
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06-01-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 01:40 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:30 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I wouldn't mind it if she showed up informally, myself. And I wouldn't feel right forcing her or her family to foot the entire bill.

Also -- if we did go to the extent of dressing formally for the occasion, I certainly wouldn't rent a suit. I'd buy it, so that I'd have it as a keepsake.

Cool. And I don't need the most expensive rock, though I do appreciate a true gem. Wink


The thing is, out of this whole thread I think there are two separate engagement ring issues:

The cost: Most, if not all, people as the would-be receiver in this thread agree it's not important and as long as it's something the person likes aesthetically, then we're all good. (not saying that all in this world feel this way)

The meaning: Some appreciate the sentiment behind it and some do not, subjective to the giver/receiver. Some may worry that the cost is mixed with the feelings and meaning of the ring receiver. I'm curious if the cost were taken out of the equation and not be a factor, what would people really say about the social implication of wearing one or having their SO wear it? How would people feel then?

Well to add some more to the meaning question. I went through phases of thought on the issue. At a point the idea of the ring giving felt too tied to the ownership/dowry aspect that I despised the whole connection there. The element that it connects to this symbol and history of me buying this girl I'm infatuated with and enjoy spending human interaction with was disgusting.

I haven't thought of that much in years, but it's been the same years I've not had anyone I thought of potentially marrying. So who knows if I'd still think that way when seriously pondering it.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-01-2016, 02:03 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 01:40 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Cool. And I don't need the most expensive rock, though I do appreciate a true gem. Wink


The thing is, out of this whole thread I think there are two separate engagement ring issues:

The cost: Most, if not all, people as the would-be receiver in this thread agree it's not important and as long as it's something the person likes aesthetically, then we're all good. (not saying that all in this world feel this way)

The meaning: Some appreciate the sentiment behind it and some do not, subjective to the giver/receiver. Some may worry that the cost is mixed with the feelings and meaning of the ring receiver. I'm curious if the cost were taken out of the equation and not be a factor, what would people really say about the social implication of wearing one or having their SO wear it? How would people feel then?
I think I'd still have an issue, even if "socially acceptable" engagement rings weren't so expensive. Just being told what I have to buy to display my worth as a potential husband feels wrong. To me it's like being asked to come to a birthday party (that happens to also be on my birthday), but being told that in order to come I must bring a designer pair of red socks as a gift. P.S. although it is my birthday too, I should definitely not expect a gift, because, you know, I'm a guy.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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