Engagement rings....WHY?
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06-01-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 02:03 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:40 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Cool. And I don't need the most expensive rock, though I do appreciate a true gem. Wink


The thing is, out of this whole thread I think there are two separate engagement ring issues:

The cost: Most, if not all, people as the would-be receiver in this thread agree it's not important and as long as it's something the person likes aesthetically, then we're all good. (not saying that all in this world feel this way)

The meaning: Some appreciate the sentiment behind it and some do not, subjective to the giver/receiver. Some may worry that the cost is mixed with the feelings and meaning of the ring receiver. I'm curious if the cost were taken out of the equation and not be a factor, what would people really say about the social implication of wearing one or having their SO wear it? How would people feel then?
I think I'd still have an issue, even if "socially acceptable" engagement rings weren't so expensive. Just being told what I have to buy to display my worth as a potential husband feels wrong. To me it's like being asked to come to a birthday party (that happens to also be on my birthday), but being told that in order to come I must bring a designer pair of red socks as a gift. P.S. although it is my birthday too, I should definitely not expect a gift, because, you know, I'm a guy.

It sounds like you're still thinking of it as a monetary engagement though.

I'm asking about the idea of just wearing the ring that you've brought (not bought) her? Make it a ring made out of sticks. How do you feel about your fiancé wearing something that shows others publicly that she is planning on the commitment of being your wife and that this is being planned, that it is happening for sure now?
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06-01-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 02:03 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:40 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Cool. And I don't need the most expensive rock, though I do appreciate a true gem. Wink


The thing is, out of this whole thread I think there are two separate engagement ring issues:

The cost: Most, if not all, people as the would-be receiver in this thread agree it's not important and as long as it's something the person likes aesthetically, then we're all good. (not saying that all in this world feel this way)

The meaning: Some appreciate the sentiment behind it and some do not, subjective to the giver/receiver. Some may worry that the cost is mixed with the feelings and meaning of the ring receiver. I'm curious if the cost were taken out of the equation and not be a factor, what would people really say about the social implication of wearing one or having their SO wear it? How would people feel then?
I think I'd still have an issue, even if "socially acceptable" engagement rings weren't so expensive. Just being told what I have to buy to display my worth as a potential husband feels wrong. To me it's like being asked to come to a birthday party (that happens to also be on my birthday), but being told that in order to come I must bring a designer pair of red socks as a gift. P.S. although it is my birthday too, I should definitely not expect a gift, because, you know, I'm a guy.

If you go with a nontraditional stone--not many people will be able to tell what you spent on it (vs. a diamond, based on size/grade, people can generally figure out cost.) Some of the nontraditional rings are quite elaborate and are a fraction of the cost of a diamond. Plus, your fiancee will be getting something unique. The uniqueness is why I like vintage rings with different gemstones. I just checked--and the vintage ring I want just actually went on sale and is now $238. Now I just need to get a fiance' Hobo Laugh out load

Ultimately, you have to do what's right for you and your rship. No one can tell you and your fiancee you need to do xyz as a way to express your love.
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06-01-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
My father finally got my mother a wedding ring....after 50 years of marriage. Unfortunately it after she had a stroke and he felt bad that he had never gotten her a ring. They were just too poor when they first got married to have any kind of rings so I think he used a cigar band during the very simple garden wedding. Children came fast and furious and a ring was never affordable.

So after her stroke he went down and picked out a very pretty emerald and she loved it even though she couldn't really communicate very well. She was so happy with the emerald and he was so thrilled to see her smile after the trauma of her stroke that went down and bought a lovely large amethyst too. She wore them both till the day she died. She had beautiful long tapered Modigliani hands even when she got older. Those rings looked wonderful on her hands.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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06-01-2016, 02:48 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 02:41 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  My father finally got my mother a wedding ring....after 50 years of marriage. Unfortunately it after she had a stroke and he felt bad that he had never gotten her a ring. They were just too poor when they first got married to have any kind of rings so I think he used a cigar band during the very simple garden wedding. Children came fast and furious and a ring was never affordable.

So after her stroke he went down and picked out a very pretty emerald and she loved it even though she couldn't really communicate very well. She was so happy with the emerald and he was so thrilled to see her smile after the trauma of her stroke that went down and bought a lovely large amethyst too. She wore them both till the day she died. She had beautiful long tapered Modigliani hands even when she got older. Those rings looked wonderful on her hands.

Such a sweet story Heart
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06-01-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 02:25 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 02:03 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I think I'd still have an issue, even if "socially acceptable" engagement rings weren't so expensive. Just being told what I have to buy to display my worth as a potential husband feels wrong. To me it's like being asked to come to a birthday party (that happens to also be on my birthday), but being told that in order to come I must bring a designer pair of red socks as a gift. P.S. although it is my birthday too, I should definitely not expect a gift, because, you know, I'm a guy.

It sounds like you're still thinking of it as a monetary engagement though.

I'm asking about the idea of just wearing the ring that you've brought (not bought) her? Make it a ring made out of sticks. How do you feel about your fiancé wearing something that shows others publicly that she is planning on the commitment of being your wife and that this is being planned, that it is happening for sure now?
Well I was trying to make it clear with using a nice sock as an example that it's not about the value of the gift, but the specific one-sided expectation of a specific gift for only one member of the celebrating party. And to be clear I don't want a gift in return, but I strongly dislike this expectation that is generally put on men. So much so that it is seen as WRONG to not bring this specific gift into an action that should be a free expression of love and commitment.

And I don't care if she wears something to show others that she is mine. She is a free person, and I trust her. Wearing jewelry doesn't change who she is or what we have. I think wedding rings are nice gestures (note, not equating wedding rings to engagement rings, but speaking of them separately here), but ultimately unnecessary and could be replaced with something else.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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06-01-2016, 03:23 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 02:03 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:40 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Cool. And I don't need the most expensive rock, though I do appreciate a true gem. Wink


The thing is, out of this whole thread I think there are two separate engagement ring issues:

The cost: Most, if not all, people as the would-be receiver in this thread agree it's not important and as long as it's something the person likes aesthetically, then we're all good. (not saying that all in this world feel this way)

The meaning: Some appreciate the sentiment behind it and some do not, subjective to the giver/receiver. Some may worry that the cost is mixed with the feelings and meaning of the ring receiver. I'm curious if the cost were taken out of the equation and not be a factor, what would people really say about the social implication of wearing one or having their SO wear it? How would people feel then?
I think I'd still have an issue, even if "socially acceptable" engagement rings weren't so expensive. Just being told what I have to buy to display my worth as a potential husband feels wrong. To me it's like being asked to come to a birthday party (that happens to also be on my birthday), but being told that in order to come I must bring a designer pair of red socks as a gift. P.S. although it is my birthday too, I should definitely not expect a gift, because, you know, I'm a guy.

Then don't get an engagement ring, because it's just going to make you annoyed every time you see it. You already know that there is no rule that you have to live by other people's expectations--as an atheist, you're already flouting cultural norms. She's someone you respect enough to spend your life with, so talk to her about your feelings on this, you'll probably find a better solution to your problem than anyone here can recommend.

The people who think less of you for not going the traditional route are sure to find other ways to be offended, no matter what you do. It's pointless to try to pacify those types, IMO.

For what it's worth, my recommendation is: agree on an amount that each of you wants to spend, then each of you buys an engagement present to give one another. And then promote the heck out of what you did to everyone you know, so that you can start a new social trend.
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06-01-2016, 04:49 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
Despite that the diamond market is a fraud and that engagement rings are a tradition begun by a large corporation, a clear and properly cut diamond is a beautiful product of nature. It is a good way to mark an important occasion in someone's life and it does not have to have a practical use.
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06-01-2016, 05:22 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 01:22 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 03:02 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  but at the same time, what expectation is laid upon the bride-to-be? Show up on time and say "I do".

Social expectations lay more burden upon the man than they do upon the woman, financially. Ever ask yourself why "going Dutch" is considered de classè, for a man? The tradition of a diamond ring as a symbol reduces a man to a dollar figure, in one sense. Much more attractive is the woman who appreciates the labor involved in earning that money to the extent that she doesn't wish to see it squandered on a bauble.

Whhhoaaa! Back the truck up. lol.

No. A bride does not just show up and say I do. I've NEVER in the many weddings I've attended seen a bride show up in her jeans and Tshirt and simply say "I do" and this is her only social expectation. I have seen a dude do this while the bride was all decked out though (just saying, everyone was okay with it at that wedding). In the end, the engagement and wedding price lays MORE on the female, traditionally. Traditionally speaking, the bride/ her family pays more for the occasion/ formalities/event.

Ever been to a wedding dress shop? Got your hair did as a woman (300% + mark up), got make up done, the shoes, the flowers? The engagement ring and suit rental are less.

Women pay more (traditionally).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/...ably-wont/

http://www.businessinsider.com/women-pay...do-2015-12

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/20...93952.html
I still paid for all of it. Guess who has to share the debt after the woman gets married. The man.
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06-01-2016, 05:34 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 05:22 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:22 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Whhhoaaa! Back the truck up. lol.

No. A bride does not just show up and say I do. I've NEVER in the many weddings I've attended seen a bride show up in her jeans and Tshirt and simply say "I do" and this is her only social expectation. I have seen a dude do this while the bride was all decked out though (just saying, everyone was okay with it at that wedding). In the end, the engagement and wedding price lays MORE on the female, traditionally. Traditionally speaking, the bride/ her family pays more for the occasion/ formalities/event.

Ever been to a wedding dress shop? Got your hair did as a woman (300% + mark up), got make up done, the shoes, the flowers? The engagement ring and suit rental are less.

Women pay more (traditionally).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lauraheller/...ably-wont/

http://www.businessinsider.com/women-pay...do-2015-12

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/20...93952.html
I still paid for all of it. Guess who has to share the debt after the woman gets married. The man.


I stated so many times. Traditionally. Shy Sounds like your situation was not traditionally. I paid for my wedding, all of it.
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06-01-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 05:34 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 05:22 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I still paid for all of it. Guess who has to share the debt after the woman gets married. The man.


I stated so many times. Traditionally. Shy Sounds like your situation was not traditionally. I paid for my wedding, all of it.
No. The point was this. My wife to be bought her dress, and hair, and nails, and everything else.....on her credit card. Eventually I had to pay off her debt. Thus, the groom ends up paying for everything anyway. I know this is not always the case. There may be a few instances where it was the other way around.
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