Engagement rings....WHY?
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11-01-2016, 11:56 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(11-01-2016 11:05 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 09:33 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Everything bolded is an excessive waste of money IMO. As far as gifts, it's up to the giver what to give. If the father chooses to give those things then good for him. Ultimately I strongly believe that people should be able to choose how to spend their own money (without strong pressure to follow customs or trends).

E.g. I plan to tell guests at my wedding that they are under no obligation to bring gifts.

Yes, everything bolded is excessive. But when money is off the table as the limiting factor, then not getting the ring is just a principle that the man is holding. And if he refuses to compromise (when it's something that she really wants), then it boils down to him pushing his values onto her and her being forced to accept it.
I just don't agree. I feel like no matter how much I wanted something, expecting somebody to buy it for me is ME pushing my values on them.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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11-01-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(11-01-2016 11:54 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 11:43 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Is this ring rant for the same girl you had a prenup rant about recently?

Lucky gal. Lol.

Tongue
This isn't a rant, it's a discussion. And very few things piss me off, but insulting my relationship is one of them.

Good to know. The tongue was there to note the light hearted nature of the comment, but how you choose to take it is your choice.
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11-01-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(10-01-2016 10:50 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:11 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I'm not hot on giving diamonds for anything, and I have to concur with the earlier sentiment that if not getting a glittering rock is a deal breaker for someone then avoiding them is a good idea.



That's a pretty uneven comparison. Motorcycles and sports cars are actually useful.


Aesthetically beautiful things have their own use. A beautiful painting, photograph, a wonderfully designed necklace are calming and easy on the eye. If you surround your life with entirely useful objects your life is probably rather stark and austere. Might as well be a goddamn monk.

The thing is people everywhere on this earth have decorated themselves going back 10 thousand years and way beyond that and most of it is totally useless. Tattoos have no use, purposely creating scars on the skin have no use, feather headdresses are useless. It's all unnecessary stuff but humans love painting their skin and doing crazy things to their hair and wearing sparkly, shiney stuff even if it has no monetary value beyond looking nice against the skin or reflecting light. Little trifles given to someone as a gift, even if it's an inexpensive ring or bauble, simply makes life more fun and enjoyable and after all you only live once.

So if the only use for the ring is it's aesthetic appeal, a cubic zirconia should be the go to...

But I don't think it is about the aesthetics. A woman wearing an engagement ring isn't more pleasing to the eye of most. She incites envy in other women, and disinterest in other men... Perhaps her feeling of self worth is bolstered with an expensive ring? If that's the case, the ring's usefulness is in treating a symptom of a problem that the whole idea of diamond engagement rings may be exacerbating in the first place...
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11-01-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(11-01-2016 10:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 09:33 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Everything bolded is an excessive waste of money IMO. As far as gifts, it's up to the giver what to give. If the father chooses to give those things then good for him. Ultimately I strongly believe that people should be able to choose how to spend their own money (without strong pressure to follow customs or trends).

E.g. I plan to tell guests at my wedding that they are under no obligation to bring gifts.

Bottom line, Adrianime, you two have a wonderful wedding. Weddings are beautiful if the two people are married under a oak tree or on a roller coaster or while scuba diving. It doesn't matter. If you want to exchange a kiss instead of rings, fantastic. I think weddings are much more flexible these days. People get married in all kind of ways....or they simply live together.

Big Grin
Thank you Smile

We will exchange wedding rings Smile. The wedding likely won't be until late 2017 or even in 2018. Probably an outdoor wedding, based on how the discussion is going.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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11-01-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(10-01-2016 01:09 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(10-01-2016 10:50 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Aesthetically beautiful things have their own use. A beautiful painting, photograph, a wonderfully designed necklace are calming and easy on the eye. If you surround your life with entirely useful objects your life is probably rather stark and austere. Might as well be a goddamn monk.

The thing is people everywhere on this earth have decorated themselves going back 10 thousand years and way beyond that and most of it is totally useless. Tattoos have no use, purposely creating scars on the skin have no use, feather headdresses are useless. It's all unnecessary stuff but humans love painting their skin and doing crazy things to their hair and wearing sparkly, shiney stuff even if it has no monetary value beyond looking nice against the skin or reflecting light. Little trifles given to someone as a gift, even if it's an inexpensive ring or bauble, simply makes life more fun and enjoyable and after all you only live once.

Not to mention that hardly any man would buy a fugly motorcycle or car. Aesthetics are important even for them.
And I doubt sports cars specifically are actually useful. Unless you're a professional driver.

So sports cars aren't useful for transportation? If two people are stranded in the middle of nowhere... A sports car appears around the man, and an engagement ring appears on the woman's finger. The man drives home, and the woman walks? She's even less likely to be approached by a guy simply because she's wearing an engagement ring..
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11-01-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
Well there MAY be something to be said for the notion that if a guy can responsibly squirrel away money for a ring without his financial situation deteriorating he's good marriage material, meaning he's a keeper.
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11-01-2016, 12:16 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(11-01-2016 12:08 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Well there MAY be something to be said for the notion that if a guy can responsibly squirrel away money for a ring without his financial situation deteriorating he's good marriage material, meaning he's a keeper.
Totally true, if a man's role is to provide.

Is that a man's role these days? Or are we entering into relationships as equals?

Or if it's both our roles, should women be judged similarly?

And honestly, I think if people want to play roles, that's totally fine. If as a couple they decide the man will provide and the woman will cook and clean, then whetever. To each their own.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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11-01-2016, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 03:57 PM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(11-01-2016 12:16 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 12:08 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Well there MAY be something to be said for the notion that if a guy can responsibly squirrel away money for a ring without his financial situation deteriorating he's good marriage material, meaning he's a keeper.
Totally true, if a man's role is to provide.

Is that a man's role these days? Or are we entering into relationships as equals?

Or if it's both our roles, should women be judged similarly?

And honestly, I think if people want to play roles, that's totally fine. If as a couple they decide the man will provide and the woman will cook and clean, then whetever. To each their own.

I think there's a difference between a man being the "provider" for the household and just exhibiting enough financial responsibility that he's not likely to lead the household to ruin. You're not just marrying the person in front of you, you're marrying the person they will be 10, 20, 30 years down the road. That is if you're truly committed to each other, and if not, why get married at all? I'm not saying a man needs to flash some extravagant purchase to prove he's responsible, and I'm not saying that people can't change and get more responsible as they age. I'm just saying it's perfectly fine to forego an engagement ring because the symbolism of it seems strange to you, or so that the money can be better spent on getting your life together off on the right foot. That's fine. But that's not the same as not buying one because you can't get your shit together. I'm not trying to imply that's what you're doing. I just think if you're not a rich person, but you've got your affairs in order such that you can plan ahead to put money aside for a purchase, whether it's a ring or a trip, or money towards the down payment on a house, that shows you're serious about making a life with the person, it shows you had a goal and made a plan to achieve it. Being married is kind of like a job, it's daily work. Beyond just the love you share, you should each ask yourself, "would I hire this person to help me manage my life?" You want to ace the interview - and make sure she does too! A day will most likely come where health or age leaves one of you essentially responsible for the other. You should marry someone you think will do a good job of it.
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11-01-2016, 12:43 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
There is no way in our species to avoid all symbolism, but yea, rings are a scam, not because people want the symbolism, but because they pay too much for it and what really matters is all the time after that one day. Just like funerals, those are for the living, the dead cant "enjoy" a coffin, nor do they hear you at a ceremony.

Rituals happen and even atheists partake in them, nothing wrong with ritual. But it is when you get superstitious and stupidly think it has magic powers, that is when people con you out of money you could use for your bills or food or for the living. You can do a wedding or a funeral very cheaply and still give the event meaning.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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11-01-2016, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 01:11 PM by Nurse.)
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
If I were to get married again, I would want an engagement ring. The man cared enough to go pick one out for me that he thought would look beautiful and that I would like, and when I look at it I would think of that moment when he said something to the effect of "Lets grow old together. I want you. For all the days of the rest of our lives." A man unwilling to buy me a ring would not be a match for me. Unwilling to compromise on something that I value highly as a symbol, as a promise, is a deal breaker. Sometimes you do things for your partner because it is important for them. What else would he be unwilling to compromise on? Would I have to spend my life with a frugal partner that would never buy me anything pretty, accuse me of being a gold digger, with me always having to defend myself? After 8 1/2 years of marriage, my ex bought me only two necklaces, one for when my son was born, and one for a Mother's Day. None in an "I love you" romantic gesture kind of way since we said our vows.

I dress up and wear makeup because I find it aesthetically pleasing, both for me, and for my partner. Same thing with jewelry - it's pretty. It wouldn't have to be a diamond engagement ring, in fact I told my ex husband I would love a sapphire or an emerald surrounded by tiny diamonds, I just didn't want a solitaire. I like frilly accents. Creative pieces. Always have. He bought me a solitaire because it's what he liked. He's not the one who wore it every day. One of my coworkers has a black diamond - I looooove her ring. And it matches her saucy personality.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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