Engagement rings....WHY?
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04-01-2016, 03:16 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
My earlier post about the De Beers Group wasn't entirely for humors sake.....


Diamond rings for engagement or marriage are a pretty recent invention - and were heavily pushed by the diamond industry.....


Look it up....

The facts speak for themselves...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-01-2016, 03:17 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 03:10 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 03:07 PM)jennybee Wrote:  To me the difference is the romance. It's a man asking a woman to spend the rest of her life with him. To me an engagement ring is the symbol of all of that. Then, you can use the engagement ring to be your wedding ring as well--so the ring takes on even more of a significance and an even stronger romance factor. It's not about being materialistic and wanting a pretty ring to twirl on your finger, it's about having that ring and remembering back on the romance of when my husband to be asked me to be his wife, when my husband put that same ring on my finger and married me. I know not everyone may feel this way, but it's my take on it. I think each rship is different.
Okay, that's fine. So, how come a ring? Would another gift or gesture not have the same meaning?

I think the diamond ring is a powerful symbol -- more so than most other gifts or gestures -- although that may be a result of centuries of brainwashing.

However, going back to my earlier comment, the "rest of her life" thing seems like an empty hope/promise these days. That may be your intention during the initial flush of romance, but how many marriages actually last that long? Damn few, in my experience. When I was young, I wanted to be married more than anything else I could think of, but it never happened, and when I see how most marriages end up, I'm glad it never happened. I would have made a terrible husband anyway. I know, sour grapes...

Laugh out load
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04-01-2016, 03:19 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
citation (for those who think I'm full of shit)..

http://www.theatlantic.com/international...ng/385376/

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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04-01-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 03:14 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Why?


Because they're pretty and sparkly and everyone likes to look at sparkly things, even little babies will look at a sparkly thing over a dull thing..

Why?

Because people everywhere have been decorating themselves for thousands of years with rocks and other stuff from the earth.

Why?

Because cut diamonds sparkle like a star and who doesn't like stars.

Oh, and why diamonds?

Because diamonds can withstand years of punishment and not get scratched. I've resanded furniture, dyed fabric, changed diapers, scrubbed bathtubs, climbed trees, dug in the dirt, danced the hoochie-coochie and retiled the kitchen . I work with my hands all the time and my diamond is as clear and unscratched as the day it was given to me. It was a present given to me cause I'm a delightful person, or so says my spouse and god dammit I deserve every penny it cost.

Big Grin

....so there!


Laugh out load
That's a fine argument for a ring (as a well appreciated gift). But why as a gesture for somebodies intention for marriage? Especially why as an additional and separate gesture than a wedding ring?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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04-01-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
Even though I have made it clear with all of my previous partners that I will never get married, I did get "engaged" once to an ex girlfriend.

She had a ring and I had a ring, she was insecure and saw it as proof of commitment, that she could show the world she was taken and that I was taken and nobody else could have me.

My rings now in a field as I cast it away when we split up. Its a nice gesture between two people who love each other I suppose, but pretty meaningless to me.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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04-01-2016, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 03:36 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 03:07 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 03:03 PM)Aliza Wrote:  The tradition of engagement rings is ingrained in our culture, and knowing the history of the custom won’t change my grandma’s opinion of my finance’s sincerity if he chooses to skip on the rock. Maybe in a few generations, if ideas like yours take root, diamonds will no longer be the quintessential mode of announcing one’s engagement. But that’s not where we are right now, and if she’s anything less than 100% on board with not having a ring, she’ll betray that fact in her body language when people ask her about it. This will reflect badly on you… and also badly on her for not having the self-confidence to stand up for what she wants.

Personally, I would not choose to wear an engagement ring. I simply don’t like a lot of jewelry, but if one was given to me, I’d wear it (at least some of the time) because of it being a thoughtful gift. –But those are my choices. My would-be finance doesn’t get to make that call for me. He doesn’t get to dictate to me how I should celebrate our engagement any more than I get to dictate to him. I’d go so far as to admit that if I wanted a ring that he didn’t want to get for me, I’d go out and buy one for myself!
So you think, "do it because you are expected to do it, and will be seen poorly if you don't"? (I realize you addressed the recipients feelings as well)

I don’t allow the men that I’m with to tell me what I can and cannot wear. I don’t let them tell me how to style my hair, or how much makeup I should wear. To my way of thinking, trying to compel a woman to or not to wear a ring is really the same thing. You may not agree with her reasoning, but her opinion and her wishes are valid none-the-less.

Not everyone is on the same level emotionally. For some, it might be really important to feel that they’re doing things “traditionally.” One woman might really feel hurt when the expressions on her friends and family’s faces drop when she explains (over and over) to them that her finance didn’t think she deserved a ring, while another might proudly boast that the money could be spent more wisely and that she was choosing to buck the tradition in favor of a more practical use of the funds.

I’m just in favor of supporting each individual’s choices so their needs are met. My feelings about what they need or want just don’t factor into the equation.
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04-01-2016, 03:44 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 03:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 03:07 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  So you think, "do it because you are expected to do it, and will be seen poorly if you don't"? (I realize you addressed the recipients feelings as well)

I don’t allow the men that I’m with to tell me what I can and cannot wear. I don’t let them tell me how to style my hair, or how much makeup I should wear. To my way of thinking, trying to compel a woman to or not to wear a ring is really the same thing. You may not agree with her reasoning, but her opinion and her wishes are valid none-the-less.

Not everyone is on the same level emotionally. For some, it might be really important to feel that they’re doing things “traditionally.” One woman might really feel hurt when the expressions on her friends and family’s faces drop when she explains (over and over) to them that her finance didn’t think she deserved a ring, while another might proudly boast that the money could be spent more wisely and that she was choosing to buck the tradition in favor of a more practical use of the funds.

I’m just in favor of supporting each individual’s choices so their needs are met. My feelings about what they need or want just don’t factor into the equation.
I agree with the bold statement. But are you in favor of one party telling the other party what they must or must not buy for the other?

I have absolutely NO objection to a woman choosing to wear a ring. What I have an objection with is the one-sided expectation that a ring must be supplied for engagement. And further, the reasoning behind it being one-sided, and such a specific item seem to be completely manipulated by ad campaigns. It just seems so wrong.

I mean, I'm the type of person who thinks valentines day is incredibly stupid, yet I also consider myself a huge romantic.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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04-01-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 01:50 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I've read dozens of articles on engagement rings and I can say that I don't like them at all.

Now that I'm free to discuss this, it'd be interesting hearing other people's point of view.

It seems the vast majority of people are convinced that the engagement ring is important, or magical, or whatnot. Or maybe convinced that it symbolizes love, dedication, or commitment.

Much of my issue with engagement rings is the inequality of them. I don't even agree that it *should* be the man who has to propose in the first place. Let alone "prove" his love/dedication through an impractical, over-priced, completely material object. And why is only one party marked as "taken"? I mean, seriously, is there any good reason why a woman needs to be branded while a man allowed to roam without any adornment? Does it come down to just displaying bragging rights among women? *Not even getting into the whole corrupt diamond industry since rings don't HAVE to be diamond, no matter how much people have been "brainwashed" to believe so*

Perhaps in times past when people got married without hardly knowing each other, the engagement ring was a good indicator of what the man was bringing to the table. But now, couples are living together and practically sharing everything prior to engagement anyways. So if you already in a loving and committed relationship then you probably know the status, general life direction, approximate income, and more importantly, the personality and heart of the person you plan to marry...what the hell does the engagement ring TELL you? "He spent $X dollars on my present therefore he loves me sooooo much?" Is love quantified by spending money on functionally devoid baubles?

Furthermore, what purpose does an engagement ring have if a wedding ring is to follow? Is the exchange of wedding rings not the actual promise? The actual symbols of commitment?

So please put forward your opinion on engagement rings. Do you support them? If so, why? Do they seem dated? Unequal? Please tell me why Engagement rings in modern Western culture are anything more than a successful marketing campaign. Please tell me why a woman should expect one while a man should not. Please tell me why a wedding ring's purpose doesn't completely eclipse the need for an engagement ring.

Thank you,

Was going to add a poll, but I'm more interested in reading opinions. I like to see how people think differently than me Smile.

If she wants one, just get her one.

Doesn't always matter what one thinks is correct. The right thing to do is the kind thing to do.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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04-01-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 04:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  If she wants one, just get her one.

Doesn't always matter what one thinks is correct. The right thing to do is the kind thing to do.
I don't get it.

"If he expects you to have sex with him every night, just do it."
"If he wants you to quit your job and be a stay at home mom, just do it."

I mean, those obviously require her to give up more sovereignty than buying a ring.

But

"If he wants a motorcycle as an engagement gift, just get him one."

Since when does wanting something warrant it being expected?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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04-01-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
I think it comes down to social pressure for women. This is not true for more-independent-minded women, but for most people it's critical to make those public declarations and symbols. If they announce they're engaged and she has no ring to sport as a demonstration of his willingness and capacity to dedicate those resources to her and her offspring (the root of the symbolism), she'll know it will subject her to pity and even derision, however subtle. As stupid as flowers on Valentine's Day is, as a tradition, no one wants to be the only gal at the office whose man didn't demonstrate his affection for her in from of the co-workers, by sending a bouquet for her to place on her desk... at least, that's how it was in my old office building.

In the end, though, I always think of penguins:





(Sorry about the "Cute Animal Alert" alarm... too lazy to find a better video.)

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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