Engagement rings....WHY?
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04-01-2016, 08:07 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
I can be dense sometimes. Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!

My eldest son got married a few years ago, and no diamonds were involved. I do not believe that an engagement ring was in the mix, either. They gave each other rings with something written in Elvish (?) from Lord of the Rings (?). They are also both atheists, and had an atheist officiant friend marry them overlooking the Pacific Ocean. Nice, small wedding, no christ-punching, and done on Hallowe'en, to boot! (not that I care, but they did, for some reason)

On a side note, my wife's and my parents were wed for life. The same is true for at least two more generations back on my wife's side, and on my maternal side. There was a divorce on my dad's side; his mother and father had divorced and remarried. As crazy as it gets around here sometimes, we'll have been married 35 years next month.
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04-01-2016, 08:21 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 03:44 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 03:33 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I don’t allow the men that I’m with to tell me what I can and cannot wear. I don’t let them tell me how to style my hair, or how much makeup I should wear. To my way of thinking, trying to compel a woman to or not to wear a ring is really the same thing. You may not agree with her reasoning, but her opinion and her wishes are valid none-the-less.

Not everyone is on the same level emotionally. For some, it might be really important to feel that they’re doing things “traditionally.” One woman might really feel hurt when the expressions on her friends and family’s faces drop when she explains (over and over) to them that her finance didn’t think she deserved a ring, while another might proudly boast that the money could be spent more wisely and that she was choosing to buck the tradition in favor of a more practical use of the funds.

I’m just in favor of supporting each individual’s choices so their needs are met. My feelings about what they need or want just don’t factor into the equation.
I agree with the bold statement. But are you in favor of one party telling the other party what they must or must not buy for the other?

I have absolutely NO objection to a woman choosing to wear a ring. What I have an objection with is the one-sided expectation that a ring must be supplied for engagement. And further, the reasoning behind it being one-sided, and such a specific item seem to be completely manipulated by ad campaigns. It just seems so wrong.

I mean, I'm the type of person who thinks valentines day is incredibly stupid, yet I also consider myself a huge romantic.

This isn't really the same thing, but to your point, if I was involved with some guy who celebrates Christmas, I would have a lot of trouble participating in his holiday. I wouldn’t want his Christmas crap in my (our) home and compromise would be very difficult for me. I’d be doubly annoyed if his expectation was that I should go shopping for him and our friends and family to buy all these gifts for everyone. My views may seem irrational to a person who cherishes Christmas and views it as a largely secular (and therefore inoffensive) holiday. Yet, I would really not want to introduce this tradition into my life, and it had better be made to be worth my while to even entertain the thought.

I'm not a romantic, but as RocketSurgeon pointed out, if every other girl is getting spoiled with flowers and other gifts on one particular day, I'll be very put out if I'm the only one who gets snubbed. -And for the record, I do send chocolates and flowers to my single female friends so they don't feel left out.

It’s not like engagement rings are one of those things two people cover in the first few dates while getting to know each other. I maintain, though, that if a woman really wants a ring, a modest rock will probably be worth it to keep her happy. Who knows how that gesture may pay off in the future. Wink

IMHO, the biggest waste of money is the wedding itself. The ring absolutely pales in comparison to the costs of the ceremony and reception.
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04-01-2016, 08:26 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
A lot of women look on the ring as symbolic of what the man will do for her beyond all the sex. Men want sex. Yeah, they can be romantic and in love too but mostly they want sex. Women want love and sex too but they want to know that a man can bring something more to the table.....like a ring or a job or something like the male bower bird who builds a little nesting house to attract the female. So a guy with a nice little house to live in is pretty good too.

Personally, I'm just super shallow. I just like the ring because it's shiny and pretty.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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04-01-2016, 08:31 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 08:21 PM)Aliza Wrote:  IMHO, the biggest waste of money is the wedding itself. The ring absolutely pales in comparison to the costs of the ceremony and reception.
Oh yes, that is for sure. I am not a huge fan of wedding ceremonies, nor the expectations that come with them.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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04-01-2016, 08:56 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
No reason I can think of.

But then again, most of the girls I've dated were Lions fans... Tongue

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04-01-2016, 09:52 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 08:31 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 08:21 PM)Aliza Wrote:  IMHO, the biggest waste of money is the wedding itself. The ring absolutely pales in comparison to the costs of the ceremony and reception.
Oh yes, that is for sure. I am not a huge fan of wedding ceremonies, nor the expectations that come with them.
Weddings can, of course, been done rather cheaply. I have heard that it is common in USA for weddings to be very expensive.

We got a cake for $100, hired a garden venue for the ceremony and used a restaurant for the reception. We didn't have a band, didn't have expensive decorations. The bridal cars were borrowed from relatives for free. Had about 80 people but all up it was a cheap wedding. The wedding dress we bought and then sold straight after so that didn't cost too much either.
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05-01-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
So here is something I was told growing up in a Christian household: The engagement ring is about sex.

Even the most chaste couple will probably lose their virginity to each other during a long engagement. Even if that didn't happen people are going to assume it happened.

So if the guy breaks off the engagement he "loses" the ring. She gets to keep or sell it to compensate for lost honour.

Maybe it's like a down payment on a car. It's harder to walk away when you've already sunk a month's salary onto the deal.

Yep. De beers may have started the modern tradition, but sexual shame and repression seem to have played a role in maintaining it.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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05-01-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
Hafnof, I've read that as well.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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05-01-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(04-01-2016 04:20 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 04:12 PM)Dom Wrote:  If she wants one, just get her one.

Doesn't always matter what one thinks is correct. The right thing to do is the kind thing to do.
I don't get it.

"If he expects you to have sex with him every night, just do it."
"If he wants you to quit your job and be a stay at home mom, just do it."

I mean, those obviously require her to give up more sovereignty than buying a ring.

But

"If he wants a motorcycle as an engagement gift, just get him one."

Since when does wanting something warrant it being expected?

If there is no financial issue with it, why not give him a motor cycle if he wants one?

Not doing so implies either that you don't trust him with a motor cycle or that you are trying to make his choices for him. Or both.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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05-01-2016, 05:09 PM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(05-01-2016 04:21 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 04:20 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't get it.

"If he expects you to have sex with him every night, just do it."
"If he wants you to quit your job and be a stay at home mom, just do it."

I mean, those obviously require her to give up more sovereignty than buying a ring.

But

"If he wants a motorcycle as an engagement gift, just get him one."

Since when does wanting something warrant it being expected?

If there is no financial issue with it, why not give him a motor cycle if he wants one?

Not doing so implies either that you don't trust him with a motor cycle or that you are trying to make his choices for him. Or both.
It could also mean that you don't feel he deserves one Tongue. (just to add to your argument). Or that you plain just don't want to buy him one.

But that "If there is no financial issue with it." Is a pretty broad statement. What is a financial issue? Just having the means to do it? Or is it having so much excess resource that doing it wouldn't significantly impact you?
I think having sovereignty over ones money is a pretty big issue, and being told to spend your money in a very specific way feels insulting.

Bringing back Aliza's example. If she was told that she must buy Christmas presents for somebody else, she would find that unacceptable (I think). It isn't necessarily about whether you are able to, or even whether or not you want the person to have that item.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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