Engagement rings....WHY?
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06-01-2016, 05:52 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 02:05 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  A little rock set into gold is romance? Not to me. It's cold to the touch.

You are not required to find it romantic.

This whole discussion is both interesting and sad. (Apart from being funny)

You are not your partner. Your partner isn't you.

You and your partner will grow in many different directions in a life time. It's not always going to be the same direction, you will want to pursue things she doesn't like or approve of, and she will want to pursue things you don't like or approve of.

If the marriage is to last, if both people are going to come into their own and grow and thrive, you have to have each others back. Your reward is a happy partner who thrives in their own way and always has your back, too.

Being right is not going to do shit for you in a relationship. Understanding your partner is, and even if you can't understand his/her position on something, you still need to respect it.

If you can't respect your partner, or they can't respect you, it's not going to be easy and one or the other will feel stifled.

So, each of you is entitled to their own opinions and feelings, regardless of whether the other agrees. There is no being "right", this is not a debate. This is a support system for two people.

Finances are something that needs to be discussed, and they are not something one likes or dislikes, they are facts both have to deal with. If you can't look at them together and arrive at mutual decisions, you are headed for trouble.

If she wants a ring and you want a motor cycle, you get together and discuss how you can make both possible. Both of you need to be happy within the frame of your circumstances, and approval of the wishes of another isn't what matters. Making each other happy is.

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06-01-2016, 06:28 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 03:02 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 01:05 AM)Losty Wrote:  What is wrong with wanting something just because it's a stupid tradition. I feel like there's an overwhelming hipsterish anti-conformity attitude. Like...if you want something that most people want....oh no we are very against that. You probably only like it because everyone does it.

And so what if she does (whatever hypothetical person wants an engagement ring, doesn't necessarily have to be a woman)? She's been told her whole life that this day will come with a very special and pretty ring. She has seen other people adorning such jewelry with gazes of true love glazing over their faces on countless occasions. She's been waiting for this day. For this person. For this moment. When someone she loves will love her back and want commit to her in the "ultimate" commitment of marriage. And so...she wants everything that comes with that, the whole package.

So what if engagement rings are stupid traditions with no real value, so is marriage, but people do for themselves and their partners whatever makes them happy. I don't understand the problem.

I think the OP made his point clear, that the inequity of expectations -- man needs to fork over x thousand dollars for a ring (which is one hell of an investment in time, unless you're a lawyer), but at the same time, what expectation is laid upon the bride-to-be? Show up on time and say "I do".

Social expectations lay more burden upon the man than they do upon the woman, financially. Ever ask yourself why "going Dutch" is considered de classè, for a man? The tradition of a diamond ring as a symbol reduces a man to a dollar figure, in one sense. Much more attractive is the woman who appreciates the labor involved in earning that money to the extent that she doesn't wish to see it squandered on a bauble.

What about the fact that traditionally, it's the bride's side of the family that pays for the wedding? Often much more expensive than the engagement ring. Those social expectations are just as strong on the woman's side, and the price of the engagement ring could just as easily be seen to reduce the woman to that dollar figure.

Now, I paid exactly half of the cost of my engagement ring and our set of wedding rings, by the way, and half of the cost of my wedding and honeymoon (my share: about $250, since we had no intentions of squandering money on that stuff), and when my husband and I were dating, we always split the check. It wasn't until three years after we were married that we even got a joint checking account.

Regarding going dutch in general, I don't think it is déclassé at all, and I wish more men were comfortable with the idea. Back in my dating days, after a couple of horrible but educational experiences, I decided never to date a man who wasn't comfortable with the woman paying for her share (with money). I paid half on everything but the first date--the first date "rule" for me, personally, is that whoever asks, pays. Anything physical that happened with a guy was because I wanted it to, not because of any sense of obligation to the guy for buying me dinner. Just to be clear, I am not a man-hater or someone who had difficulty in getting a date. I found plenty of great guys who understood and accepted my position.

I probably passed up a few great guys who couldn't deal, but I'm sure those guys found a woman who was better suited to them, and I bypassed a lot of assholes.
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06-01-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?



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06-01-2016, 08:14 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 02:05 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Firstly: I refuse to support the diamond industry, given the fact that awful wars have been and still are waged funded by war diamonds.

Secondly, if I love the woman enough and she absolutely insists on finger-dressing, I'll be happy to buy her a trinket, but to be honest, I'm not very attracted to anyone who confuses the finger pointing at the Moon for the Moon itself. Symbolism is great, if you're a writer. Symbolism is not so great in an emotional context, because (in this instance) it represents a large expenditure of resources that would be better-spent actually buttressing the relationship. That three thousand dollars could go to making memories, you know? Take a trip. Go on a cruise. Buy materials and spend time together building a porch, or taking college classes together.

If she's mollified by jewelry, she's probably too simple anyway; the real deal is the relationship, not its symbols. The finger pointing at the Moon is not the Moon.

Thirdly, in this Age of Equality, the idea that the man has to lay out thousands of dollars to demonstrate his "love" -- er, financial stability -- while the allegedly equal partner has no obligation at all, and can even walk away with the gift, sell it, and get financial as well as emotional gratification, is silly.

That said, if I ever get lost and stumble down the path to marriage, I'll probably buy her a decent ring, in order to avoid later recriminations. But I don't see that happening.

(04-01-2016 02:27 PM)Nurse Wrote:  Keyword: romance

That, and three bucks, will get you a cappuccino down at Starbucks. Romance works both ways. Putting a diamond-sized price tag on it, is that romantic?

Romance is walking through a a sleepy fishing village on a Sunday morning, giving her breakfast in bed, laughing together on a roller coaster that's scaring the shit out of both of you, a quiet evening on the couch with her face in her sudoku, yours in your crossword, and her legs on yours as you idly caress them, an shoulder-rub as you walk by in the kitchen.

A little rock set into gold is romance? Not to me. It's cold to the touch.

All of the things you mentioned are also romantic. But both people having a ring that symbolizes their love for each other is cold to the touch? Sorry don't agree with you there. I agree two rings are excessive, but an engagement ring that you use for your wedding ring, to symbolize your love and your wedding vows--I guess I don't see how that is cold to the touch?

I do agree the price tags for rings are crazy. Way too much money. And it doesn't *need* to be a diamond. The ring I want is vintage and costs about 500 bucks. It's an opal (which is actually becoming a popular alternative to a diamond) with two diamond chips on the side. Even if I dated a guy who could buy me any ring I wanted (which I have), I would still opt for the $500 ring. I would love the opal ring as my engagement/wedding ring, but if I dated a guy who could only afford a $50 ring, I would love that ring just as much--because getting married is about your love for the person. The $50 ring (I would probably get a claddagh ring) would still be just as meaningful to me and symbolize my love for that person just as much. Not all women want a $3,000 ring. I think that is painting with a very broad brush.

On a side note, I don't believe it has to always be the man who gives the engagement ring to the woman. IMO, it should be whoever asks the other to marry them. If I asked a boyfriend to marry me, I would give him the ring.
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06-01-2016, 09:29 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 08:14 AM)jennybee Wrote:  On a side note, I don't believe it has to always be the man who gives the engagement ring to the woman. IMO, it should be whoever asks the other to marry them. If I asked a boyfriend to marry me, I would give him the ring.
Yeah, but you would never do that (propose), nor would you be expected to Tongue.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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06-01-2016, 09:33 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 09:29 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 08:14 AM)jennybee Wrote:  On a side note, I don't believe it has to always be the man who gives the engagement ring to the woman. IMO, it should be whoever asks the other to marry them. If I asked a boyfriend to marry me, I would give him the ring.
Yeah, but you would never do that (propose), nor would you be expected to Tongue.

I would propose to a bf. I would give them a ring too. Then I'd buy the vintage opal ring for myself Tongue

I agree, men are typically the ones who propose in our society, but I think times are changing in that arena, with women starting to propose to men as well.
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06-01-2016, 09:49 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 09:33 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 09:29 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Yeah, but you would never do that (propose), nor would you be expected to Tongue.

I would propose to a bf. I would give them a ring too. Then I'd buy the vintage opal ring for myself Tongue

I agree, men are typically the ones who propose in our society, but I think times are changing in that arena, with women starting to propose to men as well.

I know a few women who proposed to men (one proposed to my father…he said no, although now this same woman is "best friends" with him and his second wife, go figure). It's kind of like keeping your own last name when you get married, a while ago it was "shocking" and made people mad, and now it's not very controversial at all.

And of course, in a lesbian marriage, it's gonna be a woman proposing, so there are actually numerous women in the market for engagement rings.
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06-01-2016, 09:51 AM
Engagement rings....WHY?
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06-01-2016, 09:54 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 08:14 AM)jennybee Wrote:  On a side note, I don't believe it has to always be the man who gives the engagement ring to the woman. IMO, it should be whoever asks the other to marry them. If I asked a boyfriend to marry me, I would give him the ring.

I had an old girlfriend who proposed to me. She bought a ring and everything. If I would have said yes she would have just put the ring on herself.
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06-01-2016, 09:57 AM
RE: Engagement rings....WHY?
(06-01-2016 09:51 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  [IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160106/dc816f0b7806056f9d7e0

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