Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
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26-02-2017, 02:26 PM
RE: Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
(26-02-2017 02:21 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 02:19 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I wanted to write that case of other countries is more mysterious than Poland one, not mysterious in general. Perhaps "communism" got national spin in other countries of Soviet bloc too but I didn't read too much about it so I can't really say that. I'm aware of Russia case but that's all that I could state with conviction. I can only suspect that internationalism wasn't hot stuff in rest of the bloc.

It's got nothing to do with the communist block. It's got everything to do with nationalist legends. In my country that of being Hitler's first victim. In other countries something different. There's always a legend to be spun and a flag to rally behind.

I would say that ease of falling for even shitty propaganda had much to do with communist bloc, or more to the point citizens of countries making said bloc being indoctrinated by state. You accepted one shit and weren't taught to be a critical thinker then you will accept another shit, coming from different people.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-02-2017, 02:28 PM
RE: Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
(26-02-2017 02:26 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I would say that ease of falling for even shitty propaganda had much to do with communist bloc, or more to the point citizens of countries making said bloc being indoctrinated by state. You accepted one shit and weren't taught to be a critical thinker then you will accept another shit, coming from different people.

And why do you think that people in the West were taught to be more critical? We weren't. We just got exposed to a different kind of propaganda.
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26-02-2017, 02:37 PM
RE: Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
(26-02-2017 02:28 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 02:26 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I would say that ease of falling for even shitty propaganda had much to do with communist bloc, or more to the point citizens of countries making said bloc being indoctrinated by state. You accepted one shit and weren't taught to be a critical thinker then you will accept another shit, coming from different people.

And why do you think that people in the West were taught to be more critical? We weren't. We just got exposed to a different kind of propaganda.

It's you who talk about West. I made no mention of it, I just said that Soviet bloc indoctrination made it easy to fall for another propaganda. Though I would say that Westerner were indoctrinated less pervasively - it's just gut feeling however.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-02-2017, 02:43 PM
RE: Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
(26-02-2017 02:37 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Though I would say that Westerner were indoctrinated less pervasively - it's just gut feeling however.

I can testify to it being a gut feeling. We were brought up with everything the Soviets did being evil and what the West did being good. To the point that we were presented with all good freedom fighters in Afghanistan after the Soviets invaded. The ones we fought later on.

The press may have been more independent, but they always rushed to the defense when America did something and attacked when the Soviets did the same. Before the arrival of the internet, which was way past the fall of the Iron Curtain, we were just as much indoctrinated. We had more freedoms, but we certainly weren't encouraged to think critically.
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26-02-2017, 02:50 PM
RE: Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
(26-02-2017 02:43 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 02:37 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Though I would say that Westerner were indoctrinated less pervasively - it's just gut feeling however.

I can testify to it being a gut feeling. We were brought up with everything the Soviets did being evil and what the West did being good. To the point that we were presented with all good freedom fighters in Afghanistan after the Soviets invaded. The ones we fought later on.

The press may have been more independent, but they always rushed to the defense when America did something and attacked when the Soviets did the same. Before the arrival of the internet, which was way past the fall of the Iron Curtain, we were just as much indoctrinated. We had more freedoms, but we certainly weren't encouraged to think critically.

I never read much about post-war West, only recently I started to venture into this territory.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-02-2017, 02:55 PM
RE: Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
(26-02-2017 02:50 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I never read much about post-war West, only recently I started to venture into this territory.

Well, you can take the testimony of one growing up in the Cold War. We could call our government shit without going to jail. We could ask them all kinds of questions and take the streets, but the narrative we were presented with was as biased as the one in the East.

I would be hard pressed to remember any incient when I was encouraged to apply critical thinking. Some of my classmates did and more power to them. I didn't. I largely believed in what I was presented with.
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26-02-2017, 03:13 PM
RE: Engineer Shot Dead in Olathe
(26-02-2017 02:55 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 02:50 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I never read much about post-war West, only recently I started to venture into this territory.

Well, you can take the testimony of one growing up in the Cold War. We could call our government shit without going to jail. We could ask them all kinds of questions and take the streets, but the narrative we were presented with was as biased as the one in the East.

I would be hard pressed to remember any incient when I was encouraged to apply critical thinking. Some of my classmates did and more power to them. I didn't. I largely believed in what I was presented with.

Nothing more to say.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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