Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-09-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 06:26 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-09-2017 05:43 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  How do they do it on the Enterprise?
I'd go with that.

What rotating cylinder did they have on the Enterprise?

Well there you go.
Screw the cylinder.
When's your blast off date?

[Image: anigif_enhanced-26851-1450298712-2.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-09-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 09:16 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(15-09-2017 06:26 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  What rotating cylinder did they have on the Enterprise?

Well there you go.
Screw the cylinder.
When's your blast off date?

I never liked the show(s) until the Kelvin timeline, so I didn't know if they'd thrown some hokum rotating cylinder in there or not. That's why I asked. Drinking Beverage
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-09-2017, 09:54 AM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
Blush oops! Sorry! Missed this bit.

(14-09-2017 12:18 PM)Erikjust Wrote:  The question is then when the cylinder rotates it pulls the crew in one direction and when in flight the crew might be pulled in another direction.

Well.. in science fiction where such ideas are proposed they do a couple of things.

When the ship is under acceleration (The engines are fireing) the spin section is 'shut down' and the crew experiance 'Down' as against the thrust of the engines.

When the ship is 'Coasting'... then the spin habitat is wound up and the crew experiance 'Down' as radially' Away' from the centre of the ship.

So... if it's a combat ship, then time is needed to change from 'Cruse mode' to 'Combat mode'.

Thumbsup

Hope the deed back is helping.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-09-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 09:26 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(15-09-2017 09:16 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  Well there you go.
Screw the cylinder.
When's your blast off date?

I never liked the show(s) until the Kelvin timeline, so I didn't know if they'd thrown some hokum rotating cylinder in there or not. That's why I asked. Drinking Beverage

[Image: spockbeard.jpg]

[Image: anigif_enhanced-26851-1450298712-2.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-09-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 09:54 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Blush oops! Sorry! Missed this bit.

(14-09-2017 12:18 PM)Erikjust Wrote:  The question is then when the cylinder rotates it pulls the crew in one direction and when in flight the crew might be pulled in another direction.

Well.. in science fiction where such ideas are proposed they do a couple of things.

When the ship is under acceleration (The engines are fireing) the spin section is 'shut down' and the crew experiance 'Down' as against the thrust of the engines.

When the ship is 'Coasting'... then the spin habitat is wound up and the crew experiance 'Down' as radially' Away' from the centre of the ship.

So... if it's a combat ship, then time is needed to change from 'Cruse mode' to 'Combat mode'.

Thumbsup

Hope the deed back is helping.

It does, though i was more imagining a colony or scout ship.
as for the gravity when the engines are firering i am thinking a bit of the cartoon/comic Tintin Destination moon.
Where the acceleration of the rocket is what generates the gravity on the ship and they are pushed towards the floor.

Now with rotating cylinders you are pushed away from the center
But if the whole Tintin destination moon version of gravity is correct, if the ship is flying in a straight line and the cylinder is placed either on the top of the ship or on the side, you would literally be walking on the walls.
Meaning that you would basically be walking all over the instruments used to fly the ship.
And all the furniture or bed sheets would be thrown against the walls if the ship speedet up.

That is basically what i mean with my question, when the ship flies at top speed your up and down is one way and once the ship slows down and start rotation it´s another way it.
It would create all sorts of problems even if there where separate sections one for when the ship flew and one for when the cylinders rotated.
You would basically have to have several different sections depending on which way the ship flew.
And since building giant ships is probably already expensive as all hell (read a Gizmodo article that basically said building the starship enterprise would cost around 478,947,711,160$) adding extra room to the ship for the crew to enter depending on which way it flew would add further cost to an already expensive ship.

Unless of course i am mistaking and the gravity you would feel would only be when the ship accelerated, and after it was done and had reached it desired speed you would be weightless again without a spinning cylinder.
But even so depending on the acceleration time that could be quite a long time.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-09-2017, 02:39 PM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 03:14 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Is gravity caused by "mass" ? or I am being too simple?

Nope, probably not The effect of gravity causes the subsequent action of that mass it acts upon. Gravity caused Newton's apocryphal apple to "fall" to the earth, but when its fall is halted by the earth's surface, exactly the same gravitational force is acting upon its stationary state—as was its moving state (although its energy state has changed).

It should be noted that scientists are yet to figure out exactly what gravity is. We can of course observe the phenomena, but we can't formulate its mechanics of operation...

New Scientist - Seven things that don't make sense about gravity

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SYZ's post
15-09-2017, 03:53 PM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 05:43 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  How do they do it on the Enterprise?
I'd go with that.

If I recall, they used gravity plates that generated gravitons (I think a kind of spin-2 bosons). The grid of gravity plates was given a charge every hour, but could keep charge for up to 4 hours.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-09-2017, 08:56 PM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 02:39 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(15-09-2017 03:14 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Is gravity caused by "mass" ? or I am being too simple?

Nope, probably not The effect of gravity causes the subsequent action of that mass it acts upon. Gravity caused Newton's apocryphal apple to "fall" to the earth, but when its fall is halted by the earth's surface, exactly the same gravitational force is acting upon its stationary state—as was its moving state (although its energy state has changed).

It should be noted that scientists are yet to figure out exactly what gravity is. We can of course observe the phenomena, but we can't formulate its mechanics of operation...

New Scientist - Seven things that don't make sense about gravity

Newton's law of gravitation is precisely that the gravitational field is proportional to mass. Einstein's general relativity shows a relationship between space-time and energy-momentum (a more generalized way to account for mass taking into account special relativity). So Einstein's theory shows how mass can affect (bend) space-time.

So yes, gravity is "caused by mass", but it's a tad bit more complicated than that.

That's not to say that we understand everything about gravity as you correctly point out--far from it. We can't figure out how to reconcile general relativity with quantum theory, and observations leading to the idea there may be dark energy and dark mass suggests we don't have a complete model for gravity just yet.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BryanS's post
15-09-2017, 09:12 PM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(14-09-2017 12:18 PM)Erikjust Wrote:  My question would be how would re-enter the cylinder as i could imagine the door to the room would be spinning as well.
Would you just have to have to have some handles on the side of the door you would grip before entering or how?

You enter at the axis as others point out. The centripetal force is proportional to your mass, the distance one is from the center, and the square of the angular speed (F=m*w^2*r). The centripetal force is exactly zero at the middle of the rotation, so grab on at the middle to get rotating the same angular speed as the cylinder, and then slide out to the outer edge to gain the speed of the outer rim.

Quote:The question is then when the cylinder rotates it pulls the crew in one direction and when in flight the crew might be pulled in another direction.
So how could the two for lack of a better word be unified?
How do you make sure that no matter if in flight or with rotation up and down will always be in the same direction.
I could imagine you might have to flip the rooms inside the cylinder or something like that so it always matches which way gravity now pulls at you, but i am not sure.

So how exactly would could such a problem be overcome?

So I think you are asking how would a ship's design handle the ship accelerating towards its destination. Well, to start with the ship would only need to accelerate up to traveling speed and then stop. Once at traveling speed, you no longer need to be accelerating in order to be moving forward, and then only when the ship slows down when you reach the destination would you need to deal with accelerations again.

We handle this the same way we handle taking off in an airplane. Gravity pulls us towards the ground, but we need to be strapped in a seat during take-off because we are accelerating towards the cockpit during takeoff. In our rotating space ship, we experience a force towards the outer rim of the spinning cylinder. We just need to strap ourselves into a seat anchored on the outer rim of the cylinder that faces in the direction towards the front of the ship during take off. Then when we reach cruising speed and the captain turns off the "stay seated sign", we can roam around the cabin and use the bathroom Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BryanS's post
16-09-2017, 10:19 AM
RE: Entering a rotating cylinder in space and inertia gravity?
(15-09-2017 07:01 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(15-09-2017 06:41 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Third acceleration to cruise flight and deceleration during arrival would account for only a very small portion of the trip and could be accomplished in a zero G environment with the crew seated and secured using conventional safety restraints.
Speed of light, c = 300.000.000 m/s
accel 1g = 10m/s/s

How long to reach c at 1g accel? -> c/1g = 300.000.000 m/s /10 /m *s *s = 300.000.00 s = 500.000min = 8333h = 347d = 1y

You need to accel for 1y constantly at 1g to reach c
(ignoring your increasing mass near c).

If you go for Alpha Centauri (4ly) at 0.1 c. It will take you 40y and you need to accel/decel 0.1y (35days) each, at 1g.

Yeah except for one small detail: WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO FIND A PROPULSION SYSTEM CAPABLE OF BOTH ACCELEREATING TO, AND DECELERATING FROM, THE SPEED OF LIGHT?

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: