Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
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25-08-2012, 01:51 PM
Rainbow Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
Hey folks.. Just figured I post an "Argument" I had with a Theist here.. The Quotation"" marks because is it really a argument when talking to a wall?

Quote:Tard:
"If atheism is true: The universe has laws. These laws cannot be violated. Life is a product of these laws and can only exists in harmony with those laws and is governed by them. Therefore, human thought, feelings, etc., are programmed responses to stimuli and the atheist cannot legitimately claim to have meaning in life."
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Me:
"Facepalm........ Are you trolling? Or do you just Copy-Pasting from a Creationist Website? Atheism means that I do not belive in a God... It does not say anything about laws of the universe or Big bang or Evolution (No.. Evolution is not the same as the Big bang either...) Sorry to make long sentences.. Can get confusing. By calling me an atheist, and then claiming that I believe in this and that is bullshit I could be an atheist and believe the world was formed out of Chewing Gum. (Just without a God) I do enjoy good discussions.. but when you get that first point to fucking wrong then there is no point in the discussion.. Either you start educating yourself a little and then we can talk.. or just pray that I burn in hell with all my eviiiiiil agenda "
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Tard:
"The creator reveals the way to truth. We can observe that every verified existence has its cause. This trend includes countless observations of cause as being the vehicle by which existence spawns in our reality and these countless observations support axiomatic expression of its truth, and thereby support a causal theory of our origins.. There are no observations of spontaneous existence proven spawned without cause, and therefore there is no observable congruence or corroboration for theories of non-causal origin, or spontaneous existence....Most in the atheist camp ignore the axiom of cause and effect : the axiom of creation. It is a shortcoming in their philosophy if they conclude there is no cause, because of the slim possibility of a hitherto unobserved causeless event- such theories are as baseless as defining the indefinable by building it around satans demons, and personified evils."
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Me:
"Let's start with some Ad Hominem: I doubt That you talk like this normally. I even assume that you have copy-pasted parts of this.
That language is chosen to confuse people, and while it failed on me.. I think it confused you a bit... (Big Words = Truth If I already believe the agenda) am I right ?

So let's get down to it..William Lane Craig has been pwned over and over again.. And no Matter how you re-package the argument.

Where Do you get the arrogance from, to say: "There has never come anything into existence, THEREFORE GOD DID IT" ?

Sorry That is still no argument. And by the way. If you actually wanted to learn, and not just preach ignorance, you would know a little bit about Quantum mechanics, and know that things do in fact "come into existence".

Just because you and me, don't know something, does not mean you can say, MY GOD DID IT!. Why yours? Why not Odin? or why not natural causes that we actually have proof for?

I can give you some links about Craig being debunked.
I can give you some inks about Quantum mechanics.
Biology, A-biogenesis, "Big Bang" and Black Hole Time Space Infinity.
I have been a christian myself, and know that irrationality is easy to believe in.

I doubt you are going to let go of your beliefs. I hope you move them a little. So that you can accept reality, and not fear it. And keep the whole eternal life for after you have passed away.

Cheers"
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Tard:
"Since you cannot demonstrate that there is no God, all you have is your opinion. Why are you in here arguing about your opinion? I think it is arrogant for you to want others to believe in your opinion."
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Me:
"Did I tell you about some sort of truth?

Don't you think It is important to discuss opinions? I think It is one of the most important things in life to talk with people what they think.

I am glad that you don't go back to your old argument, perhaps you realized that it wasn't a very good argument.
The "You can't prove god doesn't exist" argument is very often a Hot-Button people use when their logical arguments have been refuted.

And I grand you that argument
We can't demonstrate that God does not Exist. Because We can't demonstrate that he exist. That is called logic.
If A = Not B does not mean A = C.

Like I said earlier, I don't care if you believe that you are going to live forever. What you do after you are dead is all up to you! xD
But I hope that you acknowledge that not Proving something is false, does not mean it is true.
Or do you also believe in Santa Claus, Faeries, Dragons and every single other God that has ever been created?
Because those Gods and things can also not be demonstrated not to exist. So by your logic, you should believe in them.

I am now an atheist. It means that I do not believe in any gods that have been presented to me.
People preach to me, and I listen to their arguments, but so far, every single argument has failed.
I don't look forward to die, but I accept that it is part of life. I no longer fool myself that I will live forever, and ignore the real world, just because I feel unconformable thinking that It might end one day.

I am glad that you have realized that believing in God is only a opinion and has no Scientific or Logical basis.

Cheers."
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Tard:
When it comes to the origins of our universe, we must choose between Matter as infinite and Creator God who is Spirit, as infinite and eternal (existing outside of time). Reason states that it must be One and not the other for matter cannot pre-exist itself either physically or chronologically, nor can matter bring itself into existence or create itself. Again, it is impossible for Matter to be infinite or to exist from eternity past.

Again, atheists used to agree that there cannot be an infinite regress of cause. Confronted with the reality of the nature of matter, modern atheists, supposedly intelligent atheist insist that Creator God, who is Spirit, must also adhere to the law of first cause. Again, it is so elementary it's difficult to understand how these individuals cannot grasp that physical laws do not apply to Spirit. Since God is by definition outside the universe, He is not part of any series, be it regressing or not. That means that the rules of the series, including the rules of causation will not and cannot apply to Him.

1) Matter is eternal - or
Creator God is eternal

2) If Matter isn't eternal then Matter is able to bring itself into existence - or
Creator God brings matter into existence

3) Matter, against impossible odds, accidentally or purposely produces life - or
Creator God purposely produces life from Matter

4) Matter arranges and designs itself exquisitely and intricately - or
Creator God arranges and designs Matter exquisitely and intricately

5) Matter produces a life of meaning and context and purpose - NOT! - or
Creator God produces a life of meaning and context and purpose.

Modern atheists will tell you that since the first supposition is impossible and the second is unpalatable, "Nothing caused the universe to come into being. It just happened and we need not consider it further. Please pass the cookies."

"So vast, without any question, is the divine handiwork of the Almighty Creator."
Nicolaus Copernicus, cited in Owen Gingerich, "God's Universe" (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2006) 9.
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Me:
"Damn... I hoped that you actually would learn something...

You'r argument fails in the First Sentence.. How Shitty is that Confused?

How come It is Either God did it or "Atheisms Camp"

It could be Infinite Reasons. And Science has EVERY SINGLE FACT ON THEIR SIDE!

You have absolutely nothing to back it up.

I realize that you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I keep this very very simple:

1a. Just because you only can think of 2 possibilities how the universe began, does not mean there are only two.

1b. Have you ever seen Matter that was not Eternal? No.
Have you ever seen God? No.
God 0 - Me 1

2. Second one is based on the First one, it failed. So 2 fails.
God 0 - Me 2

3. A-biogenesis is the most likely cause of life. But let us say you are smarter then every scientists studying it. Then there would be an infinite amount of possibilities how life began. I hope you at least acknowledge that the earth is not 6000-10000 years old. Your Idea is based on a Book, that some all mighty creature spoke everything into existence by magic.
God 0 - Me 3

4. There is a lot of physics that you obviously have never tried to look up. Same as before, and in all of your other messages. Just because you do not know, it does not mean YOUR GOD did it. Just like the apple falling down a tree is gravitational force, and not magic, the arrangement is explained by science, else they would not put pictures of Carbon Atoms in Science books, they would write, it is unexplained magic.
God 0 - Me 4

5. Ok, Ok... You want meaning in your life I get it. This is a very philosophical one. We are in a enormous universe, and after Billions of years we are animals who are able to think about these questions. It does not Mean That God gives us meaning, sorry, but a bloodthirsty tyrant, who murders out of hate and jealousy, and wants us to work ship him? That is the best thing you can come up with? That is so sad
And once more... How come it is Either A or B ? not C, D, E. or any other explanation of the meaning of life.

My meaning in life? To be happy, to make others happy and to find out more about the world.
Perhaps this is the difference between us. I am sceptic, and I try to find the real truths about everything. You are just gullible, and want your dogmatic beliefs instead of learning new things.

About your quote at the end. I think I made up a better one:

"The Parasitic Wasp injects her egg into Spiders. The egg hatches into a Larvae that eats the spider alive. Without any question, is the divine handiwork of the Almighty Creator"
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Let me end with a fitting example of what I belive you are doing.
When you "Google Search" for information about these things, an honest man would type this into the search:
"Why are these things like they are?"
But a Dishonest person would type this:
"How can I explain these things with my God"


We have talked enough, I really hope that you will grow balls one day, and start questioning yourself. That is how we grow wise, that is how the world progresses.

I am going to block you now. No need to talk until you have grown those balls.

Good Bye, may the magic Unicorn bless you."
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25-08-2012, 02:00 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
Roflao... may the magic unicorn bless you.. it's almost artful the way s/he said there argument and yet so... so... wel lets not talk bad about people behind their back. I thought that was funny where all the quotes in a row.

1. Striding and swaggering rootlessness without end. The precious flow of life.
2. one should fear sweet a blood stained flower.
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25-08-2012, 02:05 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
Hehe yeah ^^
I think I did this decent. People cling very tight to their beliefs if you just say that they are stupid, so I tried to hold back a little.
Was fun, although I got a bit disappointed at the end. I though he was actually opening up a little.
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25-08-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
Ups.. I forgot to say God 0 - Me 5 ..
He will see this as a win any-ways I guess...
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25-08-2012, 02:15 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
oh wow... THAT is the reason why I blocked a certain person here on the forum, and why I insist on not discussing these thing with believers. They make no sense and they are most of the time not even trying to make sense, they just play parrot and tell you what they heard or saw somewhere and it appealed to them.

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25-08-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
Yeah Smile
He pretty much acknowledged that His first argument was crap, and copy pastes a new one on the same basis ^^
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25-08-2012, 04:07 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
Not that you didn't do a stellar job of explaining your points, but I feel as if you were talking to a CreationBot. It's responses weren't just silly creation rhetoric, they really seemed non sequiturs to the points you were making. Still, Poe's Law applies here so it's difficult to tell if it was a real Christian or a CreationBot. Thumbsup

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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25-08-2012, 04:43 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
CreationBot?

Has god created it?

His second comment is trying way to hard to be smart without making sense to be pre-written by a bot imo.
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25-08-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
You were either talking to a bot or a troll that was using copypasta.

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25-08-2012, 04:57 PM
RE: Entertaining? "Argument" between Me and a Believer.
(25-08-2012 02:15 PM)Leela Wrote:  oh wow... THAT is the reason why I blocked a certain person here on the forum, and why I insist on not discussing these thing with believers. They make no sense and they are most of the time not even trying to make sense, they just play parrot and tell you what they heard or saw somewhere and it appealed to them.

Testing.

Testing - 1, 2.

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