Epicurean paradox defeated.
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13-02-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 12:25 PM)Drich Wrote:  I said God never claimed ALL Of the Omni attributes mentioned in the bible. I did not say He did not claim any.
More specifically God does not claim to be Omni benevolent. If you believe He does it is on your to provide book chapter and verse.

I'm pleasantly surprised that we all seem to be in agreement, that the god of the Bible is not benevolent.

Of course, the Epicurean paradox only applies to benevolent and omnipotent gods, so it never applied to YHWH anyway. But neither do the attributes of YHWH defeat the paradox, as it simply doesn't apply to him.

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13-02-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
OK. So we've got an evil God type... why should we worship this twerp then ? Drich ?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-02-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 01:04 PM)Drich Wrote:  from the OP you might want to read it before commenting next time.

Saying that his paradox is not good for people attacking Christianity is one thing, saying that the paradox itself fails is another.

People who attack Christianity tend to focus on the malevolent nature of the Christian god. If you agree that he is malevolent, what's your problem?


And by the way, another Christian to whom I happened to mention this conversation made a good point. The "For God so loved the world" quote should mean that he does love everyone, because loving the world without loving all the people in it doesn't make sense. What is there left to love? Comets and nebulae?

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13-02-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 01:39 PM)toadaly Wrote:  I'm pleasantly surprised that we all seem to be in agreement, that the god of the Bible is not benevolent.

Of course, the Epicurean paradox only applies to benevolent and omnipotent gods, so it never applied to YHWH anyway. But neither do the attributes of YHWH defeat the paradox, as it simply doesn't apply to him.

Yeah, that is one of two ways to solve it. The thing is, most believers don't want to actually admit their god isn't omnibenevolent. That's why the paradox keeps remaining.

I do know quite a few that solve it by giving him limitations and actually admitting that they're doing so.
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13-02-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 03:02 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I do know quite a few that solve it by giving him limitations and actually admitting that they're doing so.

Which still leaves the issue of why would you bother worshiping an evil / incompetent deity ? I don't get that... I like the Persian concept of Ahura Mazda (the good guy) who fights eternally with Ahriman (el baddie), and they are both kinda equal in power... That's quite a nice idea. Sorts out the issue of evil IMO... Neither Ahura Mazda nor Ahriman are omnipotent though (IIRC)... and I dunno if you get any fancy toys for dying like Yahweh gives you.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-02-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 03:11 PM)morondog Wrote:  Which still leaves the issue of why would you bother worshiping an evil / incompetent deity ? I don't get that... I like the Persian concept of Ahura Mazda (the good guy) who fights eternally with Ahriman (el baddie), and they are both kinda equal in power... That's quite a nice idea. Sorts out the issue of evil IMO... Neither Ahura Mazda nor Ahriman are omnipotent though (IIRC)... and I dunno if you get any fancy toys for dying like Yahweh gives you.

So, Christians need to work on weakening God and strengthening Satan? That would work. They've already seriously elevated Satan from the weird heaven-lawyer that he used to be. Make him strong enough to tie God in an arm-wrestling match, and suddenly God is too busy keeping us alive to be able to stop Tay Sachs!
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13-02-2014, 09:00 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 01:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  OK. So we've got an evil God type... why should we worship this twerp then ? Drich ?

If you don't worship him, you'll be tortured by Drich's hallucinations! Evil_monster

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13-02-2014, 09:07 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 12:10 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 12:04 PM)englishrose Wrote:  How can tiny babies be evil?

That kind of thinking is seriously warped.

When did I say babies were evil?

If God is omnipotent and does not prevent children to suffer he is malevolent. Is it so hard to understand?
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13-02-2014, 09:24 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 01:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  OK. So we've got an evil God type... why should we worship this twerp then ? Drich ?

And there it is. Dreck admits that his fairy tale monster is a fairy tale monster; not worth the admiration, honor, or worship of reasonable, moral people (like us atheists). So go fuck up a rope. Drich, you will never convince us to worship or even muster an iota of respect for your evil, capricious, malevolent, childish, murderous, fictional deity. We who value ethics and morality wouldn't ever stop that low.

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14-02-2014, 03:41 AM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(13-02-2014 09:24 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 01:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  OK. So we've got an evil God type... why should we worship this twerp then ? Drich ?

And there it is. Dreck admits that his fairy tale monster is a fairy tale monster; not worth the admiration, honor, or worship of reasonable, moral people (like us atheists). So go fuck up a rope. Drich, you will never convince us to worship or even muster an iota of respect for your evil, capricious, malevolent, childish, murderous, fictional deity. We who value ethics and morality wouldn't ever stop that low.

stoop*

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