Epicurean paradox defeated.
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09-02-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(09-02-2014 02:27 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 01:40 PM)Drich Wrote:  Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

If we were not given the choice this life affords (including the option to be evil) then we would have simply been created to either spend an eternity with God or to Spend an eternity in Hell. This is the picture of true malevolence. (The souls being created to exist in Hell with no say in the matter) As it is we have been given a choice to be evil or not. No one is forcing us to be evil. It is a choice made in a man's heart apart from the expressed Will of God. Because we have been given a true choice we have to all live with the consequences. Remember what it cost God to give us this choice. A malevolent being would not have paid such a high price.

Or he could just, you know, create people to spend an eternity in Heaven and destroy Hell. Everyone's happy.

...If He did that then by definition could not be sentient could they?

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09-02-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
When you make a good argument, I'll listen. Until then I consider you to be a very loud monkey.
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09-02-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(09-02-2014 02:39 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 02:27 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  Or he could just, you know, create people to spend an eternity in Heaven and destroy Hell. Everyone's happy.

...If He did that then by definition could not be sentient could they?

Why not?

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09-02-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(09-02-2014 02:35 PM)natachan Wrote:  I have made a very long post in why sin as you are using it is a disgusting an unjust concept. I will not repost it,
is it because your afraid your post will not stand up to serious scrutiny?

Quote:And your redefining evil is shifting the goalpost. Evil is defined as "causing harm or injury" by meriam-Webster. Lets stick with that definition.
What are you talking about? I have used examples found in the bible to define that very term. The bible makes a very clear distinction between sin and Evil.. This is very appearent in the Mosisac law. Sin could be attoned for through offerings and animal sacrifice. Evil required death or stoning. so again according to God there is two separate concepts being discussed here. Epicurus did not know that because He was not speaking of the God we are speaking of. Your issue is with the want-to-be's who resurrected this failed paradox and did not do their homework, and thought they could just make it fit the God of the bible by appealing to common terminology.. It doesn't work that way. If you or epicurus was judging the God of the bible then it is too this very same bible we must use to define God. Otherwise you would be arguing against a straw man of your own creation.

again I have not moved anything I have simply given you an accurate portrayal of The God of the bible.

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09-02-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(09-02-2014 02:40 PM)natachan Wrote:  When you make a good argument, I'll listen. Until then I consider you to be a very loud monkey.

00

(get it?) Seinfeld episode?

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
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09-02-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(09-02-2014 02:46 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 02:39 PM)Drich Wrote:  ...If He did that then by definition could not be sentient could they?

Why not?

If We are were created to live in Heaven (without the need for atonement/no sin) then we all would have to be in God's expressed will. If we are in God's expressed will then there is no choice but to be who God wants us to be, which violates a fundamental principle of sentience. As it is now. We have choice even though we are in sin. That choice is to remain in sin, or to seek redemption. Placing only those who truly want to be with god in Heaven with God. allowing everyone else to seperate themselves from Him.

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09-02-2014, 03:01 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
maybe sentient is the wrong word. We would be beings with out choice. What is it call when a being is completely without choice??? (Not slaves as slaves had some choices they could make.)

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
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09-02-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(09-02-2014 02:37 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 02:25 PM)DLJ Wrote:  No need. I didn't bother reading that part as it is erroneous by default.

The questions still stand.

Thumbsup
Laugh out load how can it if you will not open your mind to an answer?Laughat you guys are so funny sometimes.

I, again, invite you to answer it as it stands.

It does not mention 'sin' or 'free will'.
Using the new testament's fan-fiction as the basis for anything is just kinda weird.

I guess it's reasonable to require a definition of 'evil' though.

Let's go for evil = natural disasters that hurt and kill living creatures.

Now try it.

Rolleyes

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09-02-2014, 03:08 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
Quote:is it because your afraid your post will not stand up to serious scrutiny?

Or that I'm on my cell phone and don't have the battery life. If you want to read it it's still in archives.

Quote:(get it?) Seinfeld episode?

I don't own a tv Sad

I'm still stating that evil as defined in our common usage is the evil, and you have yet to answer the question. You only state it doesn't apply.
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09-02-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: Epicurean paradox defeated.
(09-02-2014 02:52 PM)Drich Wrote:  If We are were created to live in Heaven (without the need for atonement/no sin) then we all would have to be in God's expressed will. If we are in God's expressed will then there is no choice but to be who God wants us to be, which violates a fundamental principle of sentience. As it is now. We have choice even though we are in sin. That choice is to remain in sin, or to seek redemption. Placing only those who truly want to be with god in Heaven with God. allowing everyone else to seperate themselves from Him.

And don't you think an all-powerful, all-loving god would be able to give humans a choice without one of the choices being eternal torture?

We have no choice anyway. If a god created us, we already live with some limitations and some choices.

Would it make any difference if the choice was not between Heaven and Hell, but between Heaven and no afterlife (or anything less cruel than Hell anyway)? A loving, compassionate god would prefer such a fate than having his own children tortured for eternity, don't you think?

Do you have kids? If they disobey you, do you beat them, burn them, torture them, or simply refuse to buy them candy?

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