Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
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09-10-2016, 11:11 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2016 11:32 PM by Erikjust.)
Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
Question I wanted to hear your opinion about this.
Right now as it is (at least where I live) if a man impregnates a woman and she deicides to keep it he is forced to pay child support until that child turns 18.
It doesn´t matter whether he wanted the child or not, he is required by law to do so.
The excuse usually goes “Well he could just have used protection” and “Men need to learn there´s no such thing as a free fuck.”

To this I can only ask why? To my knowledge women have the opportunity to protect themselves too, so why is it that only men are “legally” required to do it if they don´t want to become a father.

Personally I am of the opinion that either both men and women should have the right to an abortion or none them should.

Now before I start in how I think this could be done I want to stipulate that I am of the firm believer that women should ALWAYS have the right to decide whether or not they wanted to carry the baby to term.
If things go wrong either during the pregnancy or the birth it´s the woman and child who will pay the price, NOT the man.
The only “risk” to him is infection during the intercourse if the woman is carrying an STD of sorts, otherwise there is NO risk to him.
So the woman should always have the last say in whether she wants to keep the child or not.

Now how would legal abortion of men work?
If a man impregnates a woman and the woman wants the man to pay child support, she should be obligated to inform him within the abortion limits (I believe it´s about 3 months or so) maybe with a limit that says no later than 2 to 3 weeks before the time limit expires.

The man should then have the option of saying “no I don´t want to be a father to this child” and as such be able to cut any legal obligations to the woman or the child including paying child support.

Now to prevent this from becoming word against word.
I would suggest the ability to prove something will have to be set on each partner.
The woman will have to be able to PROVE that she has informed the man within the time limit.

How can she do this? Well where I live we have something called an E-Boks, where the government sends all kinds of official papers.
Including tax returns, birth certificates and so on and so forth.
If the woman finds out she´s pregnant she can go inform her local doctor and give him the name of the father of her child.
The doctor would then send an e-mail to the fathers eboks and maybe send the woman a copy of that mail in her eboks.

With that she is able to prove that she has informed the father of her child within the time limit.

Now the man will have two options 1: He enter his eboks and fill out a form that that officially clears him of any legal obligations to the child (this has to be done within the abortion limit also).
2: He can ignore it, and in doing so he will officially be legally required to pay child support.
Now failing to do either will have consequences for both man and woman.

If the woman either doesn´t inform the father of her child in time or isn´t able to prove that she has, the father is not required to pay any form of child support what so ever.
And if the father of the child is not able to prove that he has sent the form in time or simply had no way of doing so.
He will be legally required to pay child support if the woman wants him to do so.

Now if you do things right the woman informs the man or the man fills out the formula will have consequences too.

If the woman gets the man to pay child support, he has the right to be with his child at least one week each month without her presence, if he so choses.
If she denies him that right, he can either cut all legal ties which means that he won´t have to pay child support, or in worst chase scenarios remove her custody over their child (though this is only if he can prove that she either abuses the child or is able to take care of it).

If the man however fills out the form releasing him of any legal obligation to the child, he is not allowed to consciously seek out the woman or their child in her current place of residence.
Same obviously goes for her, she is not allowed to seek out the father of her child either
He is also not allowed to contact the child in anyway, if any contact between them is to be made the child must initiate it.

If the man or woman does so anyways and the other partner is able to prove it, in a court of law, he or she can either get the offending partner fined or in worst case scenario sentenced for stalking.
In the woman’s chase if she´s sentence for stalking either her closets family or the government will take custody of the child while she serves her sentence.

Now I mentioned the child must be the one to initiate the contact with the father.
This can be done like so when the father fills out the formula that relives him of all legal rights, he also includes his social security number.
And when the child is born the local municipality will keep a copy of the child’s birth certificate where the social security number of the father is included.
when the child turns 18, the child can go down to the local municipality and request the current address of his or her biological father.
And the child can then send a request to meet his or her father, the father then has the options of either accepting or denying the child’s request.
something the child will then have to accept.

Anyways that´s just my suggestion on how equal rights on abortion might work.
I like to hear your opinion; do you think men should have the right to cut all legal ties to their biological child or is this one area where men will never have equal rights.
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10-10-2016, 12:13 AM
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
It's pretty simple.

If they don't want a child, then they should use protection. If they used protection but got pregnant anyways, that's the risk they take to enjoy recreational sex. If they didn't use protection at the time, that's already on both parties. They now have less than 9 months to work it out like adults, before they're both saddled with 18 years of obligations.

But giving the 'right of abortion' to the father kinda defeats the whole argument of 'bodily autonomy'. Giving father's the right to terminate pregnancy effectively takes that right away from the mother. If someone else has veto power over your body, how much autonomy do you have?

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10-10-2016, 12:19 AM
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
Men can give up their parental rights. Depends on the jurisdiction if they can avoid child support if they give up their rights. Some places require the child be adopted by the step parent. Since the right to give up parental rights is available, men should not have a say in this matter.

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10-10-2016, 12:27 AM
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
(10-10-2016 12:13 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's pretty simple.

If they don't want a child, then they should use protection. If they used protection but got pregnant anyways, that's the risk they take to enjoy recreational sex. If they didn't use protection at the time, that's already on both parties. They now have less than 9 months to work it out like adults, before they're both saddled with 18 years of obligations.

But giving the 'right of abortion' to the father kinda defeats the whole argument of 'bodily autonomy'. Giving father's the right to terminate pregnancy effectively takes that right away from the mother. If someone else has veto power over your body, how much autonomy do you have?

Should have written that, the father can´t force the woman to have an abortion.
All he can do is cut off any legal rights and obligations to the child including that of having to pay child support.

If the woman thinks she is financially secure enough to take care of the child, she can choose to carry it to term otherwise she can chose to abort it, hence why it will have to be done within the abortion limit.
So if the woman doesn´t think she will be able to take care of the child on her own she can choose to abort it.

All legal abortion for men really does is allow the man to be cut away any legal responsibility for the child, he can never nor should he be able to force the woman to have an abortion that´s her choice.

Sure he can indirectly force it, by cutting off any financial support for the child and the mother.

The thing is as it is currently the woman can choose whether or not she want to have the child, the man has no such options he is forced to go along with whatever she decides.

So again in my mind either both have the right to an abortion or neither of them have the right.
Yes if there´s a danger to the woman's health a woman should always have the option of terminating the pregnancy.
But if neither party has the option of free abortion, then that is the only reason a woman could get one.

If the abortion is to be free and a woman is free to have an abortion is she chooses to, then the man (in my mind at least) should also have the option of saying cutting any legal ties to that child.

What the woman chooses to do with the child afterwards (aborting it or keeping it) is her choice.
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10-10-2016, 12:28 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 01:14 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
There can not be equal rights where no equal responsibility is. In this I think men are privileged party, one who can't get pregnant and isn't forced to go through all the problems it entails.

Simply put men can't get right to abortion as that would equal right to decide what other individual should do with their own body. Another solution is needed.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-10-2016, 12:41 AM
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
Get the technology to safely the fetus into the man to allow it to be resource connected then we can establish a link of what that human gets to be concerned about.

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10-10-2016, 12:49 AM
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
(10-10-2016 12:27 AM)Erikjust Wrote:  The thing is as it is currently the woman can choose whether or not she want to have the child, the man has no such options he is forced to go along with whatever she decides.

The problem is that the man was never a neutral party in the matter. If they together, as a couple, chose to have unprotected sex, then he already made his choice. He has to go into that knowing that he may be on the hook for 18 years of responsibility, and that the choice to carry the baby to term is not his to make.

It's a gamble, and when you gamble my friend, sometimes you lose.

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10-10-2016, 01:06 AM
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
(10-10-2016 12:19 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Men can give up their parental rights. Depends on the jurisdiction if they can avoid child support if they give up their rights. Some places require the child be adopted by the step parent. Since the right to give up parental rights is available, men should not have a say in this matter.

I would like to add that in some cases, a man might not have to pay child support if his financial situation doesn't make it possible.

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10-10-2016, 01:20 AM
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
(10-10-2016 12:49 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The problem is that the man was never a neutral party in the matter. If they together, as a couple, chose to have unprotected sex, then he already made his choice. They have to go into that knowing that they may be on the hook for 18 years of responsibility, and that the choice to carry the baby to term is not theirs to make.

It's a gamble, and when you gamble my friend, sometimes you lose.

So in other words the woman has no agency in the matter?
That i disagree with there are plenty of ways a woman can avoid getting pregnant if she doesn´t want to.
There´s both the pill, the morning after pill and a rubber specially designed to block the uterus and probably even more.

And even should all of that fail, she still has the options of terminating the pregnancy if she so chooses.
All of it designed to give the woman a choice on whether she wants to have the child or not.

The man has no such options yes he has the condom, but if that fails or he chooses to trust her when she says she is using protection.
And she ends up pregnant and chooses to keep the baby he has no option what so ever.
He will have to pay up until the child is 18.

Equal rights in abortion will give the man the option of simply saying no i don´t want to be a father and remove any legal obligations to that child including child support.
As mentioned in my post that has certain consequences.
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10-10-2016, 01:40 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 01:45 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Equal rights in abortion for both men and women?
(10-10-2016 01:20 AM)Erikjust Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 12:49 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The problem is that the man was never a neutral party in the matter. If they together, as a couple, chose to have unprotected sex, then he already made his choice. They have to go into that knowing that they may be on the hook for 18 years of responsibility, and that the choice to carry the baby to term is not theirs to make.

It's a gamble, and when you gamble my friend, sometimes you lose.

So in other words the woman has no agency in the matter?
That i disagree with there are plenty of ways a woman can avoid getting pregnant if she doesn´t want to.
There´s both the pill, the morning after pill and a rubber specially designed to block the uterus and probably even more.

You're missing the point. If he doesn't want a kid, then he has the choice to use protection. Now protection isn't perfect, but that's still his risk. It is also the woman's risk, because while her right to an abortion is guaranteed, it not a right that everyone has easy access to (thanks GOP fuckheads).

But if that man has unprotected sex, and the woman consents to it, they're both risking pregnancy; and the man does it knowing that the choice to abort or not is not his decision to make. He has his decision making point, he doesn't get a second chance at it. The mother does, but it's also her body shouldering the burden. To consent to having unprotected sex is to consent to all of the reasonable repercussions, including pregnancy and the responsibility that confers to both parties.


(10-10-2016 01:20 AM)Erikjust Wrote:  And even should all of that fail, she still has the options of terminating the pregnancy if she so chooses.
All of it designed to give the woman a choice on whether she wants to have the child or not.

Past the act of sex, it's the woman's choice because it is her burden.


(10-10-2016 01:20 AM)Erikjust Wrote:  The man has no such options yes he has the condom, but if that fails or he chooses to trust her when she says she is using protection.
And she ends up pregnant and chooses to keep the baby he has no option what so ever.
He will have to pay up until the child is 18.

Indeed. So don't have recreational sex with people whom you don't trust or have an agreement with to not have kids. If you're both looking to have sex for fun, make sure you use protection; and if that fails, get an abortion. And if you cannot trust the other person enough to do these things, DON'T FUCK THEM.

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(10-10-2016 01:20 AM)Erikjust Wrote:  Equal rights in abortion will give the man the option of simply saying no i don´t want to be a father and remove any legal obligations to that child including child support.
As mentioned in my post that has certain consequences.

Or, don't have sex with people whom you don't trust. The internet has petabytes of porn available, and a Fleshlight is a much cheaper investment than a kid.


Also, there's always vasectomies.

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