Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
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23-08-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 10:28 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 10:06 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Ok, this is what is confusing to me, if you are managing to reconcile science and religion and hold the position that you say you do, then you must take your scripture very loosely ( to put it mildly ) since it contains unscientific claims.
But then, doesn't your religion requires you to take those claims as literal truth?
Can you really call yourself Jewish or you are just making up your own religion?

Ouch. Bit rough there, mate. I've known many well educated Christians (and a few Jews) who believe in e.g. evolution. Even the pope believes in evolution.

Yes, evolution can be, to a certain degree, reconciled with religion. Story of creation, on the other hand...

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23-08-2015, 11:04 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 10:56 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 10:28 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Ouch. Bit rough there, mate. I've known many well educated Christians (and a few Jews) who believe in e.g. evolution. Even the pope believes in evolution.

Yes, evolution can be, to a certain degree, reconciled with religion. Story of creation, on the other hand...

I know many Christians and other religiously-minded people who believe in the Bible and evolution. They do this by looking at Genesis as allegorical. A literal interpretation of Genesis is at odds with evolution and *some* Christians believe viewing Genesis as allegory does away with the need for Jesus.
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23-08-2015, 11:54 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
His smug, self satisfied expression at 6:32 after "the water mixed with rock and created something called...soup" is the reason I couldn't trust myself to have a one-on-one conversation with him. I'm afraid I'd have an involuntary reaction involving my fist and his face. No

It's just one long argument from incredulity based on a strawman version of evolution and abiogenesis which he is too stupid to realize are different things.

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23-08-2015, 12:13 PM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 09:47 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 09:36 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  I think what we are wondering is, when you take science to its ultimate conclusion you'll find fact, but when you take religion to its ultimate conclusion you'll find woo. Those two don't mix. How do you rectify that? Do you just block that part out?

No, I don't block it out. I've got it explained to my own personal satisfaction. But to be perfectly honest with you, I can look at my own explanation and see why other people wouldn't accept it. Then I just shrug my shoulders and remember that according to the tenants of my own faith, a belief in a creator isn't necessary or required in any way; it's optional. So if other people don't believe in God, then it's perfectly okay and it is not my responsibility to convince them.

Judaism was my gateway to atheism for this very reason. Yes


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23-08-2015, 12:15 PM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 09:16 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 08:45 AM)jennybee Wrote:  You might have answered this in another thread--but since you are a theist--how are you able to balance that while majoring in science? I know Rocket Surgeon says his fiancee is able to do that. I would think it would be difficult to maintain the two. Please don't take this as an attack, I am just curious. Big Grin

Thank you for asking so kindly =)

There should be no problem between religion and science. If you can see it, touch it, experiment on it, and actually get data, then how can you deny it? As a theist, my position is simple. Mankind was made to interact with a physical world, so the physical evidence that we see around us must have some relevance. This idea is firmly rooted in my religious education.

There is no evidence that man was made for anything. Evolution tells a very different story.

I would call that a conflict.

Any religious claim of a god affecting reality becomes fair game for science.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 10:56 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 10:28 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Ouch. Bit rough there, mate. I've known many well educated Christians (and a few Jews) who believe in e.g. evolution. Even the pope believes in evolution.

Yes, evolution can be, to a certain degree, reconciled with religion. Story of creation, on the other hand...

Unless you're religion believes it was a story written for the time it was written.

I know Jews who celebrate Passover and at the same doubt the veracity of the exodus account. Why do they do it? Because their families did it before them and they try to honor the traditions.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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23-08-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 10:28 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 10:06 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Ok, this is what is confusing to me, if you are managing to reconcile science and religion and hold the position that you say you do, then you must take your scripture very loosely ( to put it mildly ) since it contains unscientific claims.
But then, doesn't your religion requires you to take those claims as literal truth?
Can you really call yourself Jewish or you are just making up your own religion?

Ouch. Bit rough there, mate. I've known many well educated Christians (and a few Jews) who believe in e.g. evolution. Even the pope believes in evolution.

The Catholic Church supports its version of evolution, not the scientific theory.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 12:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 10:56 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  Yes, evolution can be, to a certain degree, reconciled with religion. Story of creation, on the other hand...

Unless you're religion believes it was a story written for the time it was written.

I know Jews who celebrate Passover and at the same doubt the veracity of the exodus account. Why do they do it? Because their families did it before them and they try to honor the traditions.

Yes. Judaism is a bit of a special case, in that it's as much a culture as a set of religious beliefs.

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23-08-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 12:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 10:28 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Ouch. Bit rough there, mate. I've known many well educated Christians (and a few Jews) who believe in e.g. evolution. Even the pope believes in evolution.

The Catholic Church supports its version of evolution, not the scientific theory.

I don't know about that Chas, it's more like they see no conflict between evolution and the bible. (the average catholic, not the whole whacky group). They don't think a day is a literal day but one that could last a billion years. And each "day" doesn't even have to be same length of time.

The baptist upbringing (school) was in direct conflict with what our regular parish was teaching. The baptist school I attended told me dinosaurs didn't exist at all and were a trick. They believed firmly the earth was a few thousand years old.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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23-08-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
Most modern Jews I have known do not take the story in Genesis as a literal text in the modern sense. They know that it is an origin myth written by their Bronze-Age ancestors, and no more expect their ancestors to have understood biological evolution than they would have understood nuclear fusion.

I have always been fond of the theistic notion that says, loosely, "Because the Creator made the universe, and our world in that universe, then whatever we find in that world through the Scientific Method--which roots out our personal biases--is finding the fingerprints of the Creator, and is therefore the highest form of religion, since religion at its root is a means of trying to understand God."

As for the Hovind family, they are charlatans of the worst sort. That whole video is laughable and in direct conflict with what we do know about science, even stuff that a highschool student could prove wrong. (Which is, by the way, what caused me to give up religion, after being lied to by someone from Hovind's organization when they came to preach at my church and my teenage self said, "WTF?!")

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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