Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
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24-08-2015, 08:48 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 10:00 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 09:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God", and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God". -Wikipedia

Quote:Catholicism holds that God initiated and continued the process of his evolutionary creation, that Adam and Eve were real people (the Church rejects polygenism) and affirms that all humans, whether specially created or evolved, have and have always had specially created souls for each individual. -Wikipedia

What part of "Catholicism holds that God initiated and continued the process of his evolutionary creation" am I projecting? Consider

Those statements are very clear that they believe their God is an active participant in evolution.

I'm sorry Chas, but I've never seen that as a huge issue. We don't know how abiogenesis began...meh Drinking Beverage

I'm glad, grateful even, there are some religious types that don't follow the model of God doing it in 6 literal days.

There are plenty other bones I have to pick with the catholic church. Evolution totally isn't one of them.

I'm not picking a bone with the Roman Catholic Church.
I am picking a bone with the contention that they agree with or support the Theory of Evolution.

They do not - they support some other idea of evolution that includes their God.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-08-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(24-08-2015 08:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 05:59 PM)Aliza Wrote:  .....
Frankly, I really can’t tread on this any further because I simply lack the education to discuss this any further from the Jewish position. Sorry. Undecided I’ll let you know if I get an answer with more substance from someone who knows more than me.

I just asked someone who is (way) more educated than I am, and it turns out that both the Talmud (written at around 500 CE) and the biblical commentator, Rashi, (11th Century) both record that the sun was already in existence prior to the 4th day of creation.

How would they know that if Genesis was written in 1400 BCE?

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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24-08-2015, 08:56 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(24-08-2015 08:50 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 08:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I just asked someone who is (way) more educated than I am, and it turns out that both the Talmud (written at around 500 CE) and the biblical commentator, Rashi, (11th Century) both record that the sun was already in existence prior to the 4th day of creation.

How would they know that if Genesis was written in 1400 BCE?

The guys wrote the date on it ? Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-08-2015, 08:58 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(23-08-2015 10:10 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(23-08-2015 09:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God", and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God". -Wikipedia

What part of "evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God" am I projecting? Consider


Quote:Catholicism holds that God initiated and continued the process of his evolutionary creation, that Adam and Eve were real people (the Church rejects polygenism) and affirms that all humans, whether specially created or evolved, have and have always had specially created souls for each individual. -Wikipedia

What part of "Catholicism holds that God initiated and continued the process of his evolutionary creation" am I projecting? Consider

Those statements are very clear that they believe their God is an active participant in evolution.

I own Collins' book (though it's currently on loan to my parents). He openly ridicules the idea that God needed to "fiddle" with evolution to make it work, in one of the first chapters. So yes, I think you are. Sorry.

You are likely referring to this?

“There are many subtle variants of theistic evolution, but a typical version rests upon the following premises: The universe came into being out of nothingness, approximately 14 billion years ago. Despite massive improbabilities, the properties of the universe appear to have been precisely tuned for life. While the precise mechanism of the origin of life on earth remains unknown, once life arose, the process of evolution and natural selection permitted the development of biological diversity and complexity over very long periods of time. Once evolution got under way, no special supernatural intervention was required. Humans are part of this process, sharing a common ancestor with the great apes. But humans are also unique in ways that defy evolutionary explanation and point to our spiritual nature. This includes the existence of the Moral Law (the knowledge of right and wrong) and the search for God that characterizes all human cultures throughout history.”
― Francis S. Collins, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief

-bolding mine-

That is utterly not the Theory of Evolution.

“At this point, godless materialists might be cheering. If humans evolved strictly by mutation and natural selection, who needs God to explain us? To this, I reply: I do. The comparison of chimp and human sequences, interesting as it is, does not tell us what it means to be human. In my views, DNA sequence alone, even if accompanied by a vast trove of data on biological function, will never explain certain special human attributes, such as the knowledge of the Moral Law and the universal search for God. Freeing God from the burden of special acts of creation does not remove Him as the source of the things that make humanity special, and of the universe itself. It merely shows us something of how He operates.”
― Francis S. Collins, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief

-bolding mine-

That is in no way compatible with the Theory of Evolution. Drinking Beverage

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24-08-2015, 08:58 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(24-08-2015 08:50 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 08:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I just asked someone who is (way) more educated than I am, and it turns out that both the Talmud (written at around 500 CE) and the biblical commentator, Rashi, (11th Century) both record that the sun was already in existence prior to the 4th day of creation.

How would they know that if Genesis was written in 1400 BCE?

Can you clarify your question?
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24-08-2015, 09:02 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(24-08-2015 08:56 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 08:50 AM)jennybee Wrote:  How would they know that if Genesis was written in 1400 BCE?

The guys wrote the date on it ? Tongue

Yup...or they used these methods Tongue

1. Simple study
2. Linguistic peculiarities
3. Paleography
4. Archaeology
5. Carbon-14 dating
6. References by other works

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24-08-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(24-08-2015 08:58 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 08:50 AM)jennybee Wrote:  How would they know that if Genesis was written in 1400 BCE?

Can you clarify your question?

The Talmud was written in 500 CE and Rashi (11th Century)--both reference the sun was in existence prior to 4th day of creation. But Genesis was written in 1400 BCE. So how would the writers of the Talmud and Rashi (both YEARS later) know what the Genesis writer(s) meant re: whether or not the sun was in existence before day 4?

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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24-08-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
The sad part about all this is, just what kind of Creator are these idiots evidence of? Hobo

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24-08-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
Hey Jenny... MySpace called, they want their siggy back. Angel

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24-08-2015, 09:27 AM
RE: Eric Hovind provides evidence for creationism
(24-08-2015 09:16 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Hey Jenny... MySpace called, they want their siggy back. Angel

Tongue

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