Escaping Spirituality
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03-06-2017, 01:44 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
Quote:way to represent atheism

That's the same thing you said to me. Nobody represents atheism. It's not like there's an official membership. Like what the fuck are you on about?
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03-06-2017, 01:51 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(03-06-2017 08:46 AM)AB517 Wrote:  no, your claim is horse shit because your claim is based on nothing. so omni dude horse shit or your horse shit. Either way we need to shovel it out of the way so regular people can choose for themelves.

What claim have I made? Be specific, and provide a link.

(03-06-2017 08:46 AM)AB517 Wrote:  of course, if'en you want, we can list our observations supporting our claims. I am assuming you have some training in science otherwise your opinion is a giant load of horeshit. based on what you want to be real. Just like a run of the mill literal theist.

this site is thinking atheists. its supposed to be think first, horse shit second.

You're also assuming you know my stance on the matter, and you're imputing some mysterious claim to me.

If this is your idea of rigorous thinking, I submit that there's a lot more slop between your ears than you seem aware of.

Again: link to this "claim" I'm said to have made, and we'll go from there.

Over to you.
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03-06-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(03-06-2017 08:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  Such a big big pile for such a tiny, tiny brain.

[Image: pile_of_shit.gif]

The horseshit is strong with this one.
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03-06-2017, 01:55 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2017 01:59 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Escaping Spirituality
Who gives a shit about semantics I say.

Spaghetti cow runs fence house towards the back of dipping.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
~ 0 ~
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03-06-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
Indeed, Thump...

[Image: 1q94p1.jpg]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-06-2017, 02:04 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2017 02:07 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(02-06-2017 03:47 AM)AB517 Wrote:  Basically, my claim is, the truth lies between "woo woo loving universe" and "lack belief in anything." That the "spiritual" component of "mind, body, spirit" is a useful way to address the oneself and improve oneself.

I thought so too for a long time, until I realized I actually made myself worse through adopting the spiritualistic paradigm for self-improvement. In the end, I found that thinking about myself in naturalistic ways was much more realistic and productive.

If some people find spirituality useful, it must mean something to them. But as far as I can tell it just helps them socially, not personally.
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03-06-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(03-06-2017 01:35 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(03-06-2017 01:26 PM)AB517 Wrote:  to your point, the computer that beat that asian game can't even play chess.

the growth acceleration has slowed down already. just saying.
Two unrelated statements. The inability of a computer that wins at Go to have the vaguest idea how to deal with chess, or to generalize from Go to chess, is a reflection that deep learning technology is in play, which is not hard AI. It is not a reflection of the computer being too slow, but only being trained in one thing, and only knowing in fact how to learn one topic.

The growth of raw compute power has slowed, but the slowing has been compensated for by scaling up the number of processors and improving multitasking. A processor released this year may have the same clock speed as a processor released 2 years ago but may run twice as many instructions per clock cycle, have a bigger cache, have twice as many cores, all while multi-threaded software becomes easier to write, etc. In the meantime, we appear to be on the cusp of general-purpose quantum computing which is generally regarded as any reliable system of 50 or more qubits. A 49 qubit proof of concept is expected this year. In conventional computing there are other improvements currently being scaled up to commercial deployment. So I think that Moore's Law will continue to apply at least unevenly going forward.

That's exactly right. Thats stuff is all implied when we start talking about prediction with people that think they understand. I knew from the jump that fred didn't understand but this thread is more about how to support a claim and how two different claims can be as valid to each other. I gave him some slack.

winning that asian game and not being able to play chess is not a function of speed. why would you say I meant that?

for computing, heat is the big issue. the brain is slower, per individual path, then a computer, it just has more pathways. it gives up speed for heat considerations. The brain is more flexible too. I am not sure why you are telling me I am wrong when I didn't imply anything but those two notions.

they are adding more pathways. As I said many post ago, I don't think they will get the need number for it to "wake up" using conventional means in 100 years. i stated maybe they get lucky with the net because there is something I am missing. But o don't think so.

as you know, Capacitance is the issue when flushing electrons down a conductor like we are.

yes, we don't know the mechanisms for storing and processing the inputs that the brain can do. That's why I think we will copy the brain growth and apply those techniques on a growing brain before we do it with today's computer technology or make a new brain. again, Thats shit is implied when we start making claims to people that understand the claim.

Now back to the topic, how does what we just did relate to "spirituality". It relates in two ways. One, it clearly shows how people make assumption based on personal realities. that those personal realities may, or may not, line up with what is real.

Second, what is the responsibility of the person that doesn't understand? What is the responsibility of the person that shoots anything down anything even when it becomes clear they are not fully aware of what they don't know?

this was a great exercise for that. Knowing what you think you know and what I think i know, I think we reach the end game in 200 years or less by biomedical engineering and not electrical engineering.

This exercise shows, that even though I don't agree with you, I understand I could be wrong and that your claim is nearly as valid to me as mine. That's a critical difference in defending a belief with horseshit.

lastly, because its a spiritually thread. The universe makes everything. When we want to slam spiritual people we have to understand that the universe makes everything is the starting point.

Its a better axiom then "human made this and the universe made that'. because the latter is not true.
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03-06-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(03-06-2017 02:04 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 03:47 AM)AB517 Wrote:  Basically, my claim is, the truth lies between "woo woo loving universe" and "lack belief in anything." That the "spiritual" component of "mind, body, spirit" is a useful way to address the oneself and improve oneself.

I thought so too for a long time, until I realized I actually made myself worse through adopting the spiritualistic paradigm for self-improvement. In the end, I found that thinking about myself in naturalistic ways was much more realistic and productive.

If some people find spirituality useful, it must mean something to them. But as far as I can tell it just helps them socially, not personally.

yes, you are totally right.

I use mind, body, and spirit as a reference to How I think, how I react, and how I feel.

Any one of the three components can't be over emphasised or one will not be happy. don't over think, over react, and be overly emotional.

to much woo woo and stone cold logic run us into problems. For me, to much logic is the the problem. i have to remember that those numbers are people sometimes.
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03-06-2017, 02:40 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(03-06-2017 02:15 PM)AB517 Wrote:  ---
to much woo woo and stone cold logic run us into problems. For me, to much logic is the the problem. i have to remember that those numbers are people sometimes.

I try to temper logic & reason with empathy & compassion. Human beings can often rail against all of these constructs just to survive.

Evolution ain't pretty. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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03-06-2017, 03:37 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2017 03:40 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(03-06-2017 02:04 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 03:47 AM)AB517 Wrote:  Basically, my claim is, the truth lies between "woo woo loving universe" and "lack belief in anything." That the "spiritual" component of "mind, body, spirit" is a useful way to address the oneself and improve oneself.

I thought so too for a long time, until I realized I actually made myself worse through adopting the spiritualistic paradigm for self-improvement. In the end, I found that thinking about myself in naturalistic ways was much more realistic and productive.

If some people find spirituality useful, it must mean something to them. But as far as I can tell it just helps them socially, not personally.

I agree and disagree, Hankian. No doubt we each find our own way up the mountain. Some need more spirituality, some need more hard-nosed reason, and those needs are contingent upon the person in question. As a young atheist, I went so far towards reason that I found myself excluding the ineffable, and I needed to find my own middle ground. Perhaps you came at it from another angle and needed to back away from the wordlessness, I don't know -- and I don't want to put words in your mouth on the matter.

Where I disagree is about finding its utility solely in the social realm. i get much usefulness in understanding that my ego is not the metacentric height of the ship of the universe; it does not roll around me. And that is a lesson I needed to learn, in my egotism. The Universe will rock and roll this way and that, and my job is to set aside my ego and roll with the waves. Perhaps it's because I have a bigger, or less-trained, ego, than you? I don't know. I only know that my (non-woo) sense of spirituality helps me center myself and remain emotionally balanced even as the waves turn us all this way and that.

Cheers, bud.
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