Escaping Spirituality
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04-06-2017, 02:54 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 02:35 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I'll give you that. He's worth reading. He gives you things to think about. He's proven himself insightful. Like you say, he's earned some credibility. But in the Singularity he keeps pushing and pushing and pushing. ... If that book was written with more humility and qualifiers instead of coming off like a wannabe Nostradamus I would take him a little more seriously.

Oh there's no doubt Kurzweil's a pompous self-aggrandizing asshole. Pretty much the whole lot of his ilk are.

(04-06-2017 02:35 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Like someone else said, an incredible amount of factors will have to fall into place, a lot of them sociological and environmental, for his predictions to pan out.

It's not that these factors will just fall into place, we're going to put them in place. Almost everyone (but not Girly, the bastards won't catch me that easily) has already willingly agreed to have an RFID Lojack chip permanently embedded in their ass via their back pocket. And what we first saw as convenient, we now find essential. It always works that way.

#sigh
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04-06-2017, 03:45 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 02:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-06-2017 01:08 PM)mordant Wrote:  The problem with Kurzweil's predictions it that he draws the wrong conclusions from them. Moore's Law is simply an expression of available CPU power. Having a quantity of CPU power doesn't equate to all of that power suddenly doing something useful or even synergistic. It's just potential sitting around. When it comes to self-aware general-purpose AI, the problem isn't even one of insufficient power or speed, it is one of using the wrong paradigm (equating a biological brain with a computer).

I think you're missing his point. His argument is that Moore's Law is an observable phenomena intrinsic to all technologies, not just raw processing power.
Maybe I misunderstand his point, but I think that his point as you explain it is itself highly questionable.
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04-06-2017, 05:21 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 01:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 01:26 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  I find that all of his claims have been lofty, baseless assertions, that he keeps saying there's "evidence" for (all of it seems to be anecdotal nonsense coming from his own brain really.) And then, when he's called out, he'll play semantic word games so that there's no reasoning with him.

I think he's just an idiot.

well, you don't know what you don't know. so that's on you.


but you keep pluggin girl, get that ged if ya need to. it'll help.
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04-06-2017, 05:25 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 01:26 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  I find that all of his claims have been lofty, baseless assertions, that he keeps saying there's "evidence" for (all of it seems to be anecdotal nonsense coming from his own brain really.) And then, when he's called out, he'll play semantic word games so that there's no reasoning with him.

Thus... memes will abound.

thats bull shit. My claims are empirical and you don't even know it. So really, for you, the question is ...

what is your responsibility when it becomes clear you don't understand the science behind a claim?

what is our responsibility when people that just don't understand just dismiss a claim based on "I don't believe that."?
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04-06-2017, 05:28 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 07:15 AM)big green mouth Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 06:45 AM)AB517 Wrote:  [...] I hear it all the time "my belief is not a religion, its a relationship with ________(fill in the blank)." [...] Spirituality, to me, is the emotional connection to something larger and more complex than the individual.

Pot meet kettle?

you cherry picked what was said. your change to the post is not what i said or implied.

so one tactic of people that have personal needs that are more important than observations is to cherry pick a line and change the meaning of the post.

nice job by you.
kettle literalist meet pot literalist.
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04-06-2017, 05:37 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 02:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-06-2017 01:17 PM)mordant Wrote:  And as I pointed out, even if he's right about growth, it's growth in speed and affordability of raw compute resources, which says ZERO about how effectively those resources are used or deployed to the ends he hopes they will be.

The Law of Accelerating Returns is a claim about intrinsic exponential growth being fundamental to technology in general, not just compute power. Elon "I'm Batman." Musk's apocalyptic view on this is that we better integrate our technologies with our biology quick or the technology will quickly realize that we are not only unessential and superfluous to its advancement, but counterproductive to it.

The risk Musk perceives is that the massive interconnectivity of massively parallel distributed compute nodes, coupled with our obsession with making the nodes and their aggregations autonomic (self-configuring, self-healing, self-regulating, self-learning, self-organizing, self-optimizing, self-protecting, self-* properties, ...) will inevitably lead to self-awareness and SkyNet.
I do wonder if integrating tech into our bodies is really going to help in that scenario because it assumes that the biological part will be somehow necessary to the (larger, networked) technological part. If we become dependent on it then SkyNet can just shut us off or blind us or drive us insane when we become inconvenient. Whether we are connected by a brain stem interface or by a keyboard, we represent potentially oppositional and inconvenient wills.
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04-06-2017, 05:38 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
@AB

You're a jackass. You fail to even give evidence as you say I can't understand it.

Can we all mutually agree to stop responding to anything this guy says across all threads until he gives up and goes away?

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
-Neil Degrasse Tyson
[Image: stairway_to_heaven_by_tomtr.png]
~ 0 ~
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04-06-2017, 05:41 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 05:38 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  @AB

You're a jackass. You fail to even give evidence as you say I can't understand it.

Can we all mutually agree to stop responding to anything this guy says across all threads until he gives up and goes away?

Absolutely.
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04-06-2017, 05:43 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 01:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-06-2017 08:42 AM)AB517 Wrote:  Yeah, My claim stands and is reinforced by your graphs. We need to talk about what some of tose graphs really mean.

Uh, no it's not. It is refuted by those graphs. You do realize those graphs are on a logarithmic scale, right? You do know how to read a graph with a logarithmic scale, right? You do know what a logarithmic scale is, right? You do know what a logarithm is, right? 'Cause your post indicates that you don't.

so i don't think you know what you talking about. we are adding more chips because moore's law has stop with the number of transistors per unit volume. sorry man, if you don't know that's what i said, that's on you.

They are adding chips, not adding more transitions the same volume anymore. at least the ones that fit moore's predictions. so your graphs are old.

My claim that we will be making the next life form using biomedical engineering before we do it with computer AI stands. for a number of engineering reasons. As I said, I think we copied brain growth mechanisms befor we build our own brain or make a computer that has the power of our brain.

that's really all i claimed. i also said i could be wrong. But your graphs do not, in anyway, change my opinion, they are not describing what is going on today.

But you have your panties in bunch for some reason. My main point is you can have more than one reasonable claim that can coexists.

100 years computer AI or
my biomechanical engineering next life form in 200 or less.

You find that offensive for what reason? Why would you need one and only one answer?
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04-06-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(04-06-2017 05:41 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(04-06-2017 05:38 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  @AB

You're a jackass. You fail to even give evidence as you say I can't understand it.

Can we all mutually agree to stop responding to anything this guy says across all threads until he gives up and goes away?

Absolutely.

you don't dont understand basic science. I said nothing that you can't take to your local college or university and let them tell you what i mean. Not philosophy professors, take it to chemistry or physics please.

You calling me a jackass because you don't understand is funny. Funny like a clown Thumbsup

But you reverting to "Jack ass" is reasonable approach; not directly addressing the facts is cool. Laughat

i claim your rationalism is like a religion because its about your personal reality and not what the universe is doing or not doing. because nothing I said will be denyied by a college level chemistry or physics teacher. sorry, but i talk to some.

Lmao at Jackass, i can't even say it was challenging. you guys ran away at the first sign of higher level science. i don't think I called you any names even when it was clear i past you.

I clearlt told you that you wouldn't get past my responce to your personal attack on me. I said you are way to emotional to have an objective view.

You proved me right. Bummer really, just means I have to address this nonsense in work more often because people think things said on the net are gospel.

I will still address each science point if you want.
But you know you can't do that.
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