Escaping Spirituality
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30-05-2017, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2017 08:10 PM by Cosmo.)
RE: Escaping Spirituality
Quote:That's like saying a bunch of bits flying around a bunch of circuits is Microsoft Word.

Exactly.

Computer programming is actually almost the perfect analogy for the mind-body problem.

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
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30-05-2017, 07:50 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(30-05-2017 07:38 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  He'll say synapses firing, while disregarding the immaterial manifestation of that synapse firing.

I'm stoked to see his response.

You're actually exactly right. The neurons don't make the thought they ARE the thought.
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30-05-2017, 07:52 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
Quote:You're actually exactly right. The neurons don't make the thought they ARE the thought.

Facepalm

~ The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you ~
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30-05-2017, 07:52 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(30-05-2017 07:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(30-05-2017 07:38 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  He'll say synapses firing, while disregarding the immaterial manifestation of that synapse firing.

I'm stoked to see his response.

That's like saying a bunch of bits flying around in a bunch of circuits is Microsoft Word.

It is.
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30-05-2017, 07:55 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
That is cognitively dissonant and you know it.

You are not smarter than a neurologist. You are not smarter than philosophers with doctorates. There's a reason it's called the 'mind-body problem.' Not the 'mind-body we got all this shit figured out.'

Girlyman's analogy fits perfectly. And you have no understanding of your own assertion.

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30-05-2017, 08:10 PM (This post was last modified: 30-05-2017 08:17 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(30-05-2017 07:52 PM)ImFred Wrote:  
(30-05-2017 07:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  That's like saying a bunch of bits flying around in a bunch of circuits is Microsoft Word.

It is.

Except it's not. It has state and changes over time. It's never the same bits and bytes bopping around in the same bunch of circuits firing every time it's run. It's never even the same bits and bytes lying around on the disk after it's been run. Never. You cannot point to an oscilloscope with a bunch of electrical charges on a circuit board and tell me, "See! Right there! That's Microsoft Word!" It's silly that you even think you can. I mean except on that HP-35 you call a computer which of course can't even run Microsoft Word so I can understand how you might not be able to comprehend what I'm talking about.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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30-05-2017, 08:11 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(30-05-2017 07:55 PM)Cosmo Wrote:  That is cognitively dissonant and you know it.

You give him too much credit.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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30-05-2017, 08:21 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
I'm just hoping he'll be intellectually honest with himself, and say he doesn't know anything more about consciousness than the rest of us know.

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30-05-2017, 08:50 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(30-05-2017 07:45 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(30-05-2017 04:49 AM)ImFred Wrote:  The mind is the brain which is part of the body and there's no "spirit". I'm hostile to it because there's no room for agnosticism about it. People talk about it like it should be taken for granted the spirit exists when it's blatantly obvious it doesn't.

I think you're wrong, You'reFred. I think there is most certainly a "soul" or "spirit" or "essence" or "eau de Bob" as you prefer. It results and is refined as the consequence of patterns of neuronal activity over the life of the brain. It is the continually self-adapting software running on the wetware. It does not exist independent of the brain and, apart from its work product, ceases to exist when the core goes dark. ps -ef | grep Girly | kill -9. Nonetheless, it certainly exists as the product of the brain interacting with its transducer sense organs over time. It does not predate the brain and cannot outlast the hardware, but it does exist, if only but for a brief moment, as You'reFred or GirlyMan. This is existentialism, existence precedes essence. It's not that the essence doesn't exist, it's that essence is contingent and transient. The "soul" does not imply anything supernatural, it's as natural as can be.

That's right: it's an emergent property of a complex and plastic brain.

Supernatural need not apply.
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30-05-2017, 09:24 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
What I try to stress is that just because it is natural doesn't make it any less wonderful.

I feel like I don't do a good enough job of that often though. Sad

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