Escaping Spirituality
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01-06-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(30-05-2017 06:43 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Mordant

It's good to be polite but are people here so sensitive that you have tag on an apologetic qualifier to say religious bullshit is bullshit on a fucking atheist forum?
I am not sure what you're referring to. I don't feel the need to be apologetic in calling religious bullshit.

I think it's inherently inaccurate to describe atheist bullshit as religious. It is areligious bullshit, by definition. Always assuming of course that you aren't confusing any strongly held or defended position as bullshit.

The difference between religious bullshit and other forms of bullshit is that religious bullshit is based on unsubstantiated assertions. Abreaction to that can sometimes be overdetermined but it is basically just a demand for substantiation. In my experience, non-theists (1) don't assert things as placeholders for the unknown and (2) don't mind embracing the unknown.

As an example, a creationist will insist without evidence that the earth is 6,000 years old (or 10,000 or whatever). An unbeliever will assert with massive amounts of evidence that it is millions of years old. Both are equally adamant, but simply being adamant doesn't make the claims "religious". It is the BASIS for the adamancy. And even an adamant evolutionist is by definition open to refining / revising what they are adamant about based on evidence.

When scientific theory is wrong, science revises the theory. When religious dogma is wrong, religion attempts to edit reality. That is the fundamental difference, and that is why it is not legitimate to suggest that typical atheist positions are held as objects of religious dogma.
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01-06-2017, 06:06 AM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2017 06:54 AM by Vera.)
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(01-06-2017 04:30 AM)AB517 Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 06:13 PM)Vera Wrote:  What the fuck are you gibbering about!

[Image: Here-Have-some-ar9tr6.jpg]

Oh, and whine about being negrepped, while you're at it. Facepalm

Or are you showing your booboo to the forum so that we can kiss it and make it better?

Facepalm

diminishing the fact that some people behave like atheism is a religion to them doesn't change the facts. We can compare the actions of some atheists and some theist to see how similar and different the expressions of a belief of godders and no-godders are.

But we all know what happens when facts start intruding into a personal opinion. facts are ignored, diminished, or hidden. Theists are more prone to this while they push magic but many atheists do it too.

ps, I didn't whine, I laughed at the person that did it. But you saying that I whinned proves my points that I just stated. Thank you.

[Image: need-some-dressing.jpg]

Yes, you did - you felt the need to bring the fact that you've been negrepped to a completely unrelated thread. Why? Your ego suffered a booboo? Go tell people posting about homophobia how they're secretly gay and how much liberals suck and the rest of the unrelated crap you spew all over this place.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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01-06-2017, 06:52 AM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(31-05-2017 05:58 PM)AB517 Wrote:  The problem is when some atheists deem what we do know as not beneficial to the atheist religion's cause so they begin reject, diminish, or cover up. The universe does what it does weather we like the woo or not. Dismissal based on a belief statement is as foolish as one based on that other belief statement.

its probably between stupid silly omni god and "I don't need nuttin but me, myself, and awe" personal emotional stances. those two are indicators of brain state more than anything.

the question is what stances would anybody put in "more valid" or "less valid" categories to base a line of logic on? Omni god? no nothing more complex? or somewhere inbetween? of course, personal opinion is just that. "personal need" are meaningless when talking about what the universe is doing to people that are only interested in what it is doing.

if one is not interested in what the universe is doing and only interested in what things mean to them, maybe they should stay out of claiming that they know what more true and whats better for people conversations. Now that doesn't mean some people don't need one fairytale over another fairytale to function. But if thats the case, give them the one that works until they can handle the truth.

Why read past "the atheist religion"?
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01-06-2017, 07:54 AM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(01-06-2017 06:52 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  Why read past "the atheist religion"?
Just morbid curiosity, still waiting for someone to make a valid and cogent argument that this is the case. Or even mount a serious effort.

In fact, I'm waiting for someone to use this gambit as other than a trolling device.
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01-06-2017, 03:11 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(01-06-2017 04:30 AM)AB517 Wrote:  Diminishing the fact that some people behave like atheism is a religion to them doesn't change the facts.

Nope. Some atheists don't act like it's a religion; far from it in fact. You're missing the vital point that theists believe in the existence of supernatural entities and paranormal phenomenon—whereas no atheist has, does, or ever will do.

Religion is defined as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods; a particular system of faith and worship; a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes or beliefs. Atheism satisfies none of these definitions.

Quote:We can compare the actions of some atheists and some theist to see how similar and different the expressions of a belief of godders and no-godders are.

No. No we cannot. Theists believe in the existence of gods, whereas atheists do not accept the possibility of gods existing. Subtle but critical difference.

Quote:But we all know what happens when facts start intruding into a personal opinion. facts are ignored, diminished, or hidden. Theists are more prone to this while they push magic but many atheists do it too.

Again, no. Theists—because of their gullibility in believing in the supernatural and paranormal—are far more likely to grossly misinterpret viable evidence, or lack of evidence, than atheists. Atheists consider each piece of evidence from a more rational, scientific, empirical perspective, and because of this are far less susceptible to woo (if at all).

I do agree with you that we all make errors of judgment at times—it's human nature—but in the theists' case, it's often led by their rusted-on religious beliefs, ancient inappropriate dogma, or peer-group influences.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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01-06-2017, 03:15 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(31-05-2017 01:47 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  I would beg to differ. I would say the supernatural realm is far more interesting than the mundane realm.

One correction. There is NO "supernatural realm". Or if you think you have any viable evidence that it does in fact exist, then please post your evidence, or at least cite some sort of accredited academic documentation.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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01-06-2017, 03:18 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(01-06-2017 03:15 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 01:47 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  I would beg to differ. I would say the supernatural realm is far more interesting than the mundane realm.

One correction. There is NO "supernatural realm". Or if you think you have any viable evidence that it does in fact exist, then please post your evidence, or at least cite some sort of accredited academic documentation.

The "supernatural realm" is more interesting because it's imaginary. We can make it the way we want it to be, like in Doctor Strange.

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01-06-2017, 03:34 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
Oh damn. I remember seeing this and then forgot to answer.

I would like to ask, what your spirituality is. Because that is such a wide spectrum that goes from: "I meditate daily" all the way to "I am a witch"

Generally if it is messing with your head, you can probably pinpoint the reasons why it is messing with your head. If you keep reminding yourself of those reasons whenever you start doubting yourself and think you should go back into your spirituality, you should slowly but surely recover just fine. It just takes a long time for some people.
Other things you can do to keep yourself sane: Fact check the things you used to believe in and every time your brain goes "yes but" you fact check the "but" as well.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
- Wotsefack?! -
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01-06-2017, 04:35 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(01-06-2017 06:52 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  
(31-05-2017 05:58 PM)AB517 Wrote:  The problem is when some atheists deem what we do know as not beneficial to the atheist religion's cause so they begin reject, diminish, or cover up. The universe does what it does weather we like the woo or not. Dismissal based on a belief statement is as foolish as one based on that other belief statement.

its probably between stupid silly omni god and "I don't need nuttin but me, myself, and awe" personal emotional stances. those two are indicators of brain state more than anything.

the question is what stances would anybody put in "more valid" or "less valid" categories to base a line of logic on? Omni god? no nothing more complex? or somewhere inbetween? of course, personal opinion is just that. "personal need" are meaningless when talking about what the universe is doing to people that are only interested in what it is doing.

if one is not interested in what the universe is doing and only interested in what things mean to them, maybe they should stay out of claiming that they know what more true and whats better for people conversations. Now that doesn't mean some people don't need one fairytale over another fairytale to function. But if thats the case, give them the one that works until they can handle the truth.

Why read past "the atheist religion"?

yeah, stop when facts get in the way of a personal belief. Just like them there pesky theists do.

I am all aboard that train ... woo woo.
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01-06-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: Escaping Spirituality
(01-06-2017 03:34 PM)Leerob Wrote:  Oh damn. I remember seeing this and then forgot to answer.

I would like to ask, what your spirituality is. Because that is such a wide spectrum that goes from: "I meditate daily" all the way to "I am a witch"

Generally if it is messing with your head, you can probably pinpoint the reasons why it is messing with your head. If you keep reminding yourself of those reasons whenever you start doubting yourself and think you should go back into your spirituality, you should slowly but surely recover just fine. It just takes a long time for some people.
Other things you can do to keep yourself sane: Fact check the things you used to believe in and every time your brain goes "yes but" you fact check the "but" as well.

people that don't understand that their head is being messed with are the problem all too often.
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