Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
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12-03-2016, 09:20 AM
Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
Religion = All that centers about man's belief in or relationship to a superior being or beings. Ref. Webster new world.

Established clause basically states, "No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".

My question is why are we spending multi-billion dollars on SETI when there's children and their families going to bed hungry here on earth?
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12-03-2016, 09:29 AM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
SETI is 2.5 million a year.
The last big biweekly lottery was 1.2 billion

If you want talk multi billion dollar incomes, just look to religion. Of those billions, how much do you think goes toward feeding the poor ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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12-03-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
(12-03-2016 09:20 AM)jballadarez Wrote:  Religion = All that centers about man's belief in or relationship to a superior being or beings. Ref. Webster new world.

Established clause basically states, "No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".

My question is why are we spending multi-billion dollars on SETI when there's children and their families going to bed hungry here on earth?

What has SETI got to do with the establishment clause?
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12-03-2016, 10:35 AM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
(12-03-2016 09:20 AM)jballadarez Wrote:  Religion = All that centers about man's belief in or relationship to a superior being or beings. Ref. Webster new world.

Established clause basically states, "No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".

My question is why are we spending multi-billion dollars on SETI when there's children and their families going to bed hungry here on earth?

SETI could also detect an alien civilization that is (or was, at the time its signals went out) at our level of technology, or at, say, 1940s level of technology. (1940s would actually be easier, since radio technology was less efficient causing more of it to bleed out into space, there were fewer signals to get garbled together, and cable, fiber-optics, etc weren't going competitors.)

But of course the real bullshit here is the cherry-picked definition.

OED: "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." "A particular system of faith and worship."

Wiktionary: "The belief in and worship of a supernatural controlling power, especially a personal god or gods." "A particular system of faith and worship." "The way of life committed to by monks and nuns." "Any practice to which someone or some group is seriously devoted."

MAYBE SETI counts as that last one, but then so does war, and the US government ain't giving that up any time soon.

Cambridge English Dictionary: " The ​belief in and ​worship of a ​god or ​gods, or any such ​system of ​belief and ​worship: the ​Christian religion" "an ​activity that someone is ​extremely ​enthusiastic about and does ​regularly"

Merriam-Webster online: "the state of a religious" "the service and worship of God or the supernatural" "commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance" "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices" "scrupulous conformity" "conscientiousness" "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

I couldn't find the OP's provided definition anywhere. Can someone fact-check this?

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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12-03-2016, 10:57 AM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
Oh, and as for feeding hungry children? You could do that more effectively by, say, slashing the defense budget .01%, or ending subsidies to the industries that are making the most profits anyway, or so on.

If you want to focus on just ending religious spending and devoting that money to hungry children, you've got military chaplains, faith-based initiatives, and the special tax-exempt status for churches, none of which are a humongous stretch to stick under the religious label the way SETI is.

If you're going to trim the budget like that, why focus on SETI when there's so many candidates out there with so much more money to go towards feeding the children? It's like you care less about the children and more about ending SETI for some reason.
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12-03-2016, 11:18 AM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
(12-03-2016 09:20 AM)jballadarez Wrote:  Religion = All that centers about man's belief in or relationship to a superior being or beings. Ref. Webster new world.

Established clause basically states, "No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".

My question is why are we spending multi-billion dollars on SETI when there's children and their families going to bed hungry here on earth?

Is SETI funded by the government? I'm opposed to the government funding such things but it is also not the government's job to feed people. It is the job of people to feed themselves and if they are unable to do the job then they must rely on private charity but the government has no right to take by force the products of one man and give them to another. They should also not be funding the search for extra terrestrial signals, global warming, the mating habits of ducks, and any other such research. It should all be private, funded by voluntary consent and not by forced taxation. The only proper functions of the government are the military, the police and the courts.

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12-03-2016, 01:25 PM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
(12-03-2016 09:20 AM)jballadarez Wrote:  Religion = All that centers about man's belief in or relationship to a superior being or beings. Ref. Webster new world.

Established clause basically states, "No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".

My question is why are we spending multi-billion dollars on SETI when there's children and their families going to bed hungry here on earth?

One of these things is not like the other~...

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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12-03-2016, 01:29 PM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
(12-03-2016 09:20 AM)jballadarez Wrote:  Religion = All that centers about man's belief in or relationship to a superior being or beings. Ref. Webster new world.

Established clause basically states, "No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".

My question is why are we spending multi-billion dollars on SETI when there's children and their families going to bed hungry here on earth?

Clarify please:

Are you mistakenly equating science to a religion?

Are you mistakenly equating a science experiment searching for alien life to a science project searching for god?

Are you ignoring the $400 BILLION per YEAR that we spend on the military R&D budget. (Just Research and Development alone...) that could be better used?

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12-03-2016, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2016 01:42 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
so don't search for deities or "superior beings" according to you. got it.

It's good thing that's not a searching goal out there. Searching for life outside earth doesn't equate it as "superior" in any dignified way. It's just other life.

If you want to ask about why astronomical research is spent funding and why that occurs in contrast to starving children, well look up some understandings of what resources can be done. There is an open plethora of potential resource gathering in the future from putting funding into space & it as well encourages and improves technologies involving shipping material or transportation. That's huge fighters against poverty and food shortages. The real problems with food supply are space & transportation. Innovations in space research have and are helping on grounds to aid those endeavours directly and indirectly via motivations.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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12-03-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: Establishment clause, 330 US 1, 15.
(12-03-2016 11:18 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-03-2016 09:20 AM)jballadarez Wrote:  Religion = All that centers about man's belief in or relationship to a superior being or beings. Ref. Webster new world.

Established clause basically states, "No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion".

My question is why are we spending multi-billion dollars on SETI when there's children and their families going to bed hungry here on earth?

Is SETI funded by the government?

Not since 1993.

Didn't NASA have a SETI program?

Yes. The NASA effort was called the High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS). In 1993, Nevada Senator Richard Bryan introduced an amendment that eliminated all funding for the NASA SETI program. The cost of the program was less than 0.1% of NASA's annual budget, amounting to about a nickel per taxpayer per year. The Senator cited budget pressures as his reason for ending NASA’s involvement with SETI.

So who funds the SETI search now?

Current SETI searches are funded by donations, mostly from individuals among the public and a few foundations and corporations. Major donors have included William Hewlett, David Packard, Gordon Moore, Paul Allen, Nathan Myhrvold, Arthur C. Clarke, Barney Oliver, and Franklin Antonio.

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