Eternal Consciousness
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03-12-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
One thing to consider is cycles. 80 years on earth might be unbearable if each hour were indistinguishable from the rest. But, we have daily, weekly, and annual cycles that keep things fresh. I still like Thanksgiving and Christmas, for example. Perhaps in heaven there are events that occur every million years, and people start talking about it 900,000 years after the last. Some people say we won't need sleep in heaven, but it wouldn't surprise me if we have it anyway, just to get that feeling of a fresh day ahead. Eternity doesn't feel like eternity if you consider it in finite pieces.
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03-12-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(02-12-2013 04:12 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  
(02-12-2013 03:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I like living. I'd like to be around tomorrow. I look back at all the years have passed, and they just flew by, it seems.

Jesus said something quite reassuring about this very thing you mention, "Worry about today only. Tomorrow will have its own issues." One day at a time. That's what eternity is.

You're comparing your life of (<100) years to eternity. And true, tommorow's issues are what make life exciting, and what generates happiness in the overcoming of those issues. This doesn't exactly hold water when dealing with an eternity of worshipping God... there are no issues.

Of course, there's the idea of being in a constantly happy state, which to me is even creepier. If you're forcibly happy, then you're no longer really in control of yourself or your actions, so what's the fun in that?

From what scripture or teaching did you derive the forcibly happy concept?

I can tell you that, if it helps, knowing I'd never get disease or run out of sustenance or lack places to travel and things to do, I'd be happy.
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03-12-2013, 03:17 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 12:35 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I think I'd get bored eventually. Once you've done everything....

Can you list some things you repeat doing and get fresh enjoyment from? Sex, for example, for me. Playing sports. Talking to interesting people. Music. Food--I can't seem to get bored from eating, and not on this Earth with its limitless food choices.

God has clearly granted men the capacity to refine avocations, careers and hobbies and derive continuing enjoyment from them.

Ennui is not a deadly sin, but you make it sound like one.
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03-12-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 03:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(02-12-2013 04:12 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  You're comparing your life of (<100) years to eternity. And true, tommorow's issues are what make life exciting, and what generates happiness in the overcoming of those issues. This doesn't exactly hold water when dealing with an eternity of worshipping God... there are no issues.

Of course, there's the idea of being in a constantly happy state, which to me is even creepier. If you're forcibly happy, then you're no longer really in control of yourself or your actions, so what's the fun in that?

From what scripture or teaching did you derive the forcibly happy concept?

I can tell you that, if it helps, knowing I'd never get disease or run out of sustenance or lack places to travel and things to do, I'd be happy.

Given that this wasn't a debate on what eternity meant, I'm not going to dip into finding verses and trying to prove anything one way or another, but the Bible and all of the Christians I've ever talked to portray heaven as providing eternal happiness, and that seems like something thats pretty hard to guarantee without it being a forced constant. Eternity is a long time for me to not have a single thought that wasn't purely happy.
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03-12-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 03:17 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 12:35 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I think I'd get bored eventually. Once you've done everything....

Can you list some things you repeat doing and get fresh enjoyment from? Sex, for example, for me. Playing sports. Talking to interesting people. Music. Food--I can't seem to get bored from eating, and not on this Earth with its limitless food choices.

God has clearly granted men the capacity to refine avocations, careers and hobbies and derive continuing enjoyment from them.

Ennui is not a deadly sin, but you make it sound like one.

Once again, you're comparing your life of (<100 years) and your activities of (<100 years) to eternity. You think even sex wouldn't get boring after 100,000,000,000 years? Everything has its limit.
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03-12-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 02:26 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 10:25 AM)djkamilo Wrote:  Way to dodge the question Tarzan!

Really it doesn't matter what Jesus said since what influenced the way people view heaven was not what he said but what was written that he said. If he did say those things, Great we can move on. If he didn't say those things, it doesn't matter cause no one knows what he said and therefore he had very little effect upon how the concept of Heaven developed. We could have an entire thread dedicated to whether Jesus was even a real person or not and that is why I tried to doge the question. A thread does have a purpose and that is to find the answer to the original question postulated by the OP. Although wondering can be fun, it can interrupt a thread and often cause it to devolve into something else.
In the strictest sense the only answer I can give is, I don't know. I don't know whether Julius Caesar said "I came, I saw, I conquered", yet I take it on faith that he really said that. In many ways you must do this with historical writing, since infinite doubt would just lead to all ancient texts basically being useless.

There are a few sayings and doings of Caesar in our zeitgeist. There are hundreds and hundreds of Bible verses, fragments, and saying of Jesus Christ that have had immense cultural staying power and are to be appreciated not as "they made us use them in the culture!" but for their own power of words.

The words themselves are compelling.
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03-12-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 03:21 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  There are a few sayings and doings of Caesar in our zeitgeist. There are hundreds and hundreds of Bible verses, fragments, and saying of Jesus Christ that have had immense cultural staying power and are to be appreciated not as "they made us use them in the culture!" but for their own power of words.

The words themselves are compelling.

Not really.

And it's patently obvious that you use every post you can to spout any bullshit Holey Babble quote you can. Your desperation is quite obvious.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-12-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 10:35 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(02-12-2013 10:42 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right, try tell my brother that the only thing keeping him from differentiating colors is his effort and tenacity, and not his genetics...

Or my cousin that it's the 'biggest factor' in his being in a wheelchair...

That that the reason I have astigmatism is from not trying hard enough...

Dodgy

[Image: straw-man.jpg]

No, it's not.

Training and attitude can refine one's skills, but it can't take one beyond innate limits. Trying harder is good, but it is not enough.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
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03-12-2013, 04:26 PM (This post was last modified: 03-12-2013 04:35 PM by Jasozz.)
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 10:35 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  [Image: straw-man.jpg]

No, it's not.

Training and attitude can refine one's skills, but it can't take one beyond innate limits. Trying harder is good, but it is not enough.

I agree with this. I have incredibly terrible hand-eye coordination, and found myself unable to play anything beyond percussion. Although, to be fair, I'm a badass on the timpani. Wink

EDIT

I suppose hand-eye coordination was the wrong term to use here, rather, my brain cannot keep up with the actions of playing the violin, or guitar, and I cannot focus on strumming/bowing and changing fingerings at the same time. Tried multiple times, even with teachers, and I was just too saturated with suckage Sad

That's why I got into Virtual Composition Big Grin
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03-12-2013, 04:38 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 04:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 10:35 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  [Image: straw-man.jpg]

No, it's not.

Training and attitude can refine one's skills, but it can't take one beyond innate limits. Trying harder is good, but it is not enough.

Really not worth quibbling over. GM doesn't seem to have been encouraged by my small attempt at bucking him up, so it's moot.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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