Eternal Consciousness
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03-12-2013, 05:43 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(02-12-2013 01:05 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  For the longest time, I swore I was the only person who held this opinion, and I have to know if anyone else feels the same way:

For those of you who have ever been Christian or any other religion that held a believe of an eternal afterlife, did the idea of eternity scare the SHIT out of you?

I'm not just talking eternal punishment, but eternal life in Heaven too. Seriously, eternity is a LONG-ASS TIME. If I thought about it, the concept of being conscious FOREVER scared me, like, instant-panic-attack scared me.

To me, Heaven and Hell had no difference at that point. Sure it'd be nice to see my loved ones again, but NOTHING can be good for ETERNITY. Eventually, it seems like eternal bliss and eternal torture would be the same thing.

Even when I was a Christian, I desperately hoped that God would give me the option of just ceasing consciousness. Then and today, I really just want there to be nothingness when I die.

The idea of being conscious for 300 trillion years doesn't faze me at all. I could walk from one end of the universe to the other, play every video game ever, read every book ever written, and still have time to spare. But that is finite at least.

My family/friends in the church NEVER understood this. They always told me "God has made it so you'll be happy, so don't worry", and somehow the idea of being FORCIBLY HAPPY for eternity goes from just scary to scary and really creepy. That sounds like being possessed to me, having no control over your thoughts and feelings but still being conscious, forEVER?

Has anyone else thought about this?

In my opinion, it sounds pretty pathetic for this god to do something like that. Isn't this god suppose to be omnipotent? If so, why couldn't he create a heaven so great that he wouldn't have to force his creation to be happy. Also, what makes Christians think that I'm going to enjoy heaven when all I'm going to be doing is worshiping this asshole of a god for an eternity. I know I'm not going to enjoy hell, but I'm pretty sure that after a few million of years, I'll get use to the burning. Plus I have way too much self-respect to deep throat this god irrumatio style forever. Dodgy
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05-12-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
Thought about this one some more. Starlight and time = infinity or nearly so. If we travel the stars with God in the next life--we are on the continuum--for eternity.
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05-12-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(03-12-2013 03:18 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 03:13 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  From what scripture or teaching did you derive the forcibly happy concept?

I can tell you that, if it helps, knowing I'd never get disease or run out of sustenance or lack places to travel and things to do, I'd be happy.

Given that this wasn't a debate on what eternity meant, I'm not going to dip into finding verses and trying to prove anything one way or another, but the Bible and all of the Christians I've ever talked to portray heaven as providing eternal happiness, and that seems like something thats pretty hard to guarantee without it being a forced constant. Eternity is a long time for me to not have a single thought that wasn't purely happy.

Yes, but that's not a scripture-based view:

"He will dwell with them and they shall be His people... and He shall wipe away all tears from their eyes..." - Revelation 19

There can be sorrow in Heaven. No more death? No more disease? No more war? Heaven.
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05-12-2013, 03:05 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(02-12-2013 07:21 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(02-12-2013 04:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Well, no. Talent is not an illusion. People have different innate capabilities and limits.

But seriously, those are factors, but the biggest factors are effort and tenacity. Really.

No. Now quit it, silly bird. Big Grin

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05-12-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
And how many times a motherfucker need be told eternal is timelessness?

Been through a few eternities. Tell you what happens: there's a loss of identity - and then there's later, and me saying, why the fuck did I hafta come back?

I mean, the grammar tells a motherfucker; an eternity, but forever is forever. And preservation of identity is just stupid. For instance, before 5/15/00, it was just me; and now it's me and my Gwynnies. Heart

(Of course there had to be a Gwynnies in there. Big Grin )

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18-06-2014, 08:25 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
I do get what you're saying. I have had those thoughts before. I just talked to my friend about a month or two ago who had a very similar experience to what you described, actually pretty much exactly the same, panic attack and all. I mean you think about an ETERNITY, and you have that split second where you really grasp what it means to be FOREVER and that it will NEVER END, it is an overwhelming thought, especially if you think all we will be doing is singing "kumbaya" for all eternity. From our point of view, this sounds dreadful.
I think our natural state is boredom. Think about it. If you just sit down for an hour and not do anything, you will be very bored. We are always looking for something to do, something fun, something to keep us from being bored. So, from our point of view, thinking of doing the same thing FOREVER sounds dreadful. Don't all great things eventually seem normal to us? First time driving a car is awesome, and driving is so boring. You might love to eat a certain meal, but if you eat it for every meal, you will eventually hate it. This process is what I call normalization, the process of the mind by which extraordinary things become ordinary. It happens with everything. You had the experience where you grasp for a split second just how crazy the idea of eternity is. Well, have you ever grasped for that split second just how amazing it is that you exist? Have you had that split second where you realize just how crazy it is that there is existence?? It's crazy! And its awesome. But, if you think about it, the most normal thing to us is the fact that we exist. Most of us don't wake up everyday amazed and blown away by the fact that there is existence. Most of us go through our days bored. So, is there anything lacking in the reality of existence that should make it so we are not amazed with it? NO! What is lacking is in us, because we fail to grasp just how awesome and crazy it is. We are so caught up in trivial things, in shallowness, and we have lost our ability to be amazed by glory.
I grew up in the church, and the idea of God and the truth of the Gospel was all just something normal to me. So, does that mean that there is something lacking in God or in the Gospel to keep me from being eternally satisfied? NO! What is lacking is my ability to see and savor God for all that He is.
So you've had your experience where you have that taste, that shimmer, that split second realization of the weight of eternity, of the infiniteness of time. Well, what if you could have a split second taste, a quick shimmer, where you grasp what it means when I say that God is infinitely glorious?
I have had the tastes where I grasp the weight of eternity, the mind blowing truth that I exist and that there is existence. But I have also had tastes where I grasp for that split second what it would be like to first arrive in heaven, completely and utterly overwhelmed by the glory of God and I am taking it all in and the REALNESS of it all hits me and I realize that I will be here forever... and I shout with all heaven, "Let the future begin!" I have had tastes, and oh how I long for more, when I realize just how amazing the Gospel is and that it's all about the Cross where I was redeemed.
The infiniteness of eternity can only be derived from the Eternal One, the Infinite One. He is infinite in His attributes, and He is INFINITELY GLORIOUS. The deepest desire of our heart is for glory, to see and to behold God's glory. We long to worship, not in the way that you have experienced in church just trying to make it through the service without falling asleep. That is not worship. Worship, in its truest and fullest sense, is becoming completely consumed in awe, in wonder, in adoration, in love, and in JOY. To worship God is not at odds with us seeking pleasure, seeking happiness, and seeking joy. Rather, to seek to worship God and glorify Him is one with the pursuit of our joy. Nothing on earth can satisfy you forever, only that which is infinitely satisfying can satisfy you forever. And there is none other that God who can do that. Pastor John Piper changed my life when I heard him say "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." And that will be our purpose in heaven: yes, to glorify and worship God, but we will glorify and worship Him BY being satisfied in HIM. And on that day when you grasp just how glorious it is that GOD, the Eternal One, the I AM, sent His only Son (who is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of His nature, and is Himself the image of the invisible God) to become a man and die on the Cross in your place, bearing your punishment, bearing the wrath you deserved, fulfilling all righteousness in your place, and securing your redemption by His resurrection from the dead --- that my friend is when the weight of the word glory will be grasped by you. God made us "to the praise of His glorious grace," and this grace is indeed glorious.
So, while you have had this split second taste of the infiniteness of eternity, you have not yet grasped the infiniteness of the glory of God in Christ Jesus who died for you. This is glory, and all of eternity will be ever-increasing joy and satisfaction in Him.
If anything of what I said resonated with you I would suggest listening to two sermons that changed the whole course of my life. I was coming off of two and a half years immersed in pot smoking and other drug use and I listened to this on a run and my whole life was changed. The sermon is called "A Passion for the Supremacy of God." The sermon is two parts. I will leave the link for the first part and from that website there will be a link to the second part. Hope what I said helps. I randomly came across your post when I was googling something else, hope you get to read this post!
http://www.desiringgod.org/conference-me...god-part-1
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18-06-2014, 10:06 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
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If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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18-06-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(18-06-2014 08:25 PM)david.sarge Wrote:  I do get what you're saying. I have had those thoughts before. I just talked to my friend about a month or two ago who had a very similar experience to what you described, actually pretty much exactly the same, panic attack and all. I mean you think about an ETERNITY, and you have that split second where you really grasp what it means to be FOREVER and that it will NEVER END, it is an overwhelming thought, especially if you think all we will be doing is singing "kumbaya" for all eternity. From our point of view, this sounds dreadful.
I think our natural state is boredom. Think about it. If you just sit down for an hour and not do anything, you will be very bored. We are always looking for something to do, something fun, something to keep us from being bored. So, from our point of view, thinking of doing the same thing FOREVER sounds dreadful. Don't all great things eventually seem normal to us? First time driving a car is awesome, and driving is so boring. You might love to eat a certain meal, but if you eat it for every meal, you will eventually hate it. This process is what I call normalization, the process of the mind by which extraordinary things become ordinary. It happens with everything. You had the experience where you grasp for a split second just how crazy the idea of eternity is. Well, have you ever grasped for that split second just how amazing it is that you exist? Have you had that split second where you realize just how crazy it is that there is existence?? It's crazy! And its awesome. But, if you think about it, the most normal thing to us is the fact that we exist. Most of us don't wake up everyday amazed and blown away by the fact that there is existence. Most of us go through our days bored. So, is there anything lacking in the reality of existence that should make it so we are not amazed with it? NO! What is lacking is in us, because we fail to grasp just how awesome and crazy it is. We are so caught up in trivial things, in shallowness, and we have lost our ability to be amazed by glory.
I grew up in the church, and the idea of God and the truth of the Gospel was all just something normal to me. So, does that mean that there is something lacking in God or in the Gospel to keep me from being eternally satisfied? NO! What is lacking is my ability to see and savor God for all that He is.
So you've had your experience where you have that taste, that shimmer, that split second realization of the weight of eternity, of the infiniteness of time. Well, what if you could have a split second taste, a quick shimmer, where you grasp what it means when I say that God is infinitely glorious?
I have had the tastes where I grasp the weight of eternity, the mind blowing truth that I exist and that there is existence. But I have also had tastes where I grasp for that split second what it would be like to first arrive in heaven, completely and utterly overwhelmed by the glory of God and I am taking it all in and the REALNESS of it all hits me and I realize that I will be here forever... and I shout with all heaven, "Let the future begin!" I have had tastes, and oh how I long for more, when I realize just how amazing the Gospel is and that it's all about the Cross where I was redeemed.
The infiniteness of eternity can only be derived from the Eternal One, the Infinite One. He is infinite in His attributes, and He is INFINITELY GLORIOUS. The deepest desire of our heart is for glory, to see and to behold God's glory. We long to worship, not in the way that you have experienced in church just trying to make it through the service without falling asleep. That is not worship. Worship, in its truest and fullest sense, is becoming completely consumed in awe, in wonder, in adoration, in love, and in JOY. To worship God is not at odds with us seeking pleasure, seeking happiness, and seeking joy. Rather, to seek to worship God and glorify Him is one with the pursuit of our joy. Nothing on earth can satisfy you forever, only that which is infinitely satisfying can satisfy you forever. And there is none other that God who can do that. Pastor John Piper changed my life when I heard him say "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." And that will be our purpose in heaven: yes, to glorify and worship God, but we will glorify and worship Him BY being satisfied in HIM. And on that day when you grasp just how glorious it is that GOD, the Eternal One, the I AM, sent His only Son (who is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of His nature, and is Himself the image of the invisible God) to become a man and die on the Cross in your place, bearing your punishment, bearing the wrath you deserved, fulfilling all righteousness in your place, and securing your redemption by His resurrection from the dead --- that my friend is when the weight of the word glory will be grasped by you. God made us "to the praise of His glorious grace," and this grace is indeed glorious.
So, while you have had this split second taste of the infiniteness of eternity, you have not yet grasped the infiniteness of the glory of God in Christ Jesus who died for you. This is glory, and all of eternity will be ever-increasing joy and satisfaction in Him.
If anything of what I said resonated with you I would suggest listening to two sermons that changed the whole course of my life. I was coming off of two and a half years immersed in pot smoking and other drug use and I listened to this on a run and my whole life was changed. The sermon is called "A Passion for the Supremacy of God." The sermon is two parts. I will leave the link for the first part and from that website there will be a link to the second part. Hope what I said helps. I randomly came across your post when I was googling something else, hope you get to read this post!
http://www.desiringgod.org/conference-me...god-part-1

Copy-Paste some more. Please, we're all oh-so-very interested in you passing off someone else's bullshit. Dodgy

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18-06-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: Eternal Consciousness
(02-12-2013 01:05 PM)Jasozz Wrote:  For the longest time, I swore I was the only person who held this opinion, and I have to know if anyone else feels the same way:

For those of you who have ever been Christian or any other religion that held a believe of an eternal afterlife, did the idea of eternity scare the SHIT out of you?

I'm not just talking eternal punishment, but eternal life in Heaven too. Seriously, eternity is a LONG-ASS TIME. If I thought about it, the concept of being conscious FOREVER scared me, like, instant-panic-attack scared me.

To me, Heaven and Hell had no difference at that point. Sure it'd be nice to see my loved ones again, but NOTHING can be good for ETERNITY. Eventually, it seems like eternal bliss and eternal torture would be the same thing.

Even when I was a Christian, I desperately hoped that God would give me the option of just ceasing consciousness. Then and today, I really just want there to be nothingness when I die.

The idea of being conscious for 300 trillion years doesn't faze me at all. I could walk from one end of the universe to the other, play every video game ever, read every book ever written, and still have time to spare. But that is finite at least.

My family/friends in the church NEVER understood this. They always told me "God has made it so you'll be happy, so don't worry", and somehow the idea of being FORCIBLY HAPPY for eternity goes from just scary to scary and really creepy. That sounds like being possessed to me, having no control over your thoughts and feelings but still being conscious, forEVER?

Has anyone else thought about this?

Yes, I have. Our natures would have to be fundamentally different to enjoy heaven. But the Bible says that we will all be changed. Well, not us of course we are going to Hell but the select few Christians who meet all the requirements. Of course it won't be much fun back on earth either after the end times when the whole Earth is populated with Jehova's Witnesses. You can only read so many pamphlets before it gets pretty boring.

This reminds me of the Donald duck cartoon where his nephews wish that it could be Christmas every day, not really thinking about what that would entail.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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