Eternal Punishment
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03-10-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
Alla,

I am having difficulty determining which of the following dogmas are true can you help?

Story A. Xenu the galactic warlord came to earth In DC 9's to deposit billions of people of the galactic federation in the bottom of volcanoes, were he detonated H-Bombs to kill them, but he then had to trap their souls, Thetans, in the body's of all of us humans living on earth. The only way for us to be saved is to release these trapped Thetans through a process of auditing.

or

Story B. God came down to earth, had himself born, as his son, to a virgin. Had himself brutally tortured and murdered, to save us from the sins of a women, who he constructed from the rib bone of a first man, who he created in his own image. God sacrificed himself, to himself, to save us from himself.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
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03-10-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
(03-10-2015 01:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 12:27 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  How do you justify any sensible understanding of this "spirit" not just being your brains confirmation bias. A concept well documented and known to confirm the way people accept data they agree with and distrust or alter data they don't agree with.
When Spirit testifies it is not only about what happens in your brain.
It is more than that.
If it was just brain these kind of thing would never happen:
Prayer question: Heavenly Father, please tell me what I should do? I am so unhappy, I am so lonely, ......."
A: Clean your room.
What?! what does it have to do with anything?
Then you cleaned the room , then you started to understand something you never understood before.
Very often God gives us unexpected answers but when we follow through we start to see/understand what we didn't see before. We have guidance.

When Spirit teaches it is more like intuition than thinking. It is when you convinced something is true but you have no idea why.

Hummm, I see you're still droning on about a god you still haven't proven exists.

Welp, back to the Birthday Thread for me.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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03-10-2015, 02:42 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
(03-10-2015 01:59 PM)Ted Tucker Wrote:  Alla,

I am having difficulty determining which of the following dogmas are true can you help?

Story A. Xenu the galactic warlord came to earth In DC 9's to deposit billions of people of the galactic federation in the bottom of volcanoes, were he detonated H-Bombs to kill them, but he then had to trap their souls, Thetans, in the body's of all of us humans living on earth. The only way for us to be saved is to release these trapped Thetans through a process of auditing.

or

Story B. God came down to earth, had himself born, as his son, to a virgin. Had himself brutally tortured and murdered, to save us from the sins of a women, who he constructed from the rib bone of a first man, who he created in his own image. God sacrificed himself, to himself, to save us from himself.

I can tell you for sure that story number two is false.
I don't understand story number one. Smile

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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03-10-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
Alla - garbled, nonsensical gibberish regarding god and heaven and other sorts of myths heavily sprinkled with fairy dust and unicorns...attempted deepity.

Other forum member - WUT?

Alla - I said that wrong, what I meant to say is god and heaven myths, sprinkled with fairy dust deepities and unicorns woven into nonsensical, garbled gibberish.

Other forum member - WUT?

wash, rinse, repeat

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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03-10-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
(02-10-2015 11:48 AM)Alla Wrote:  Nobody is going to be punished FOREVER.

Correct.

So long as we're talking about the supposed "after life". No one will be punished because there is no punisher, or exsistance to be punished in.

(02-10-2015 11:48 AM)Alla Wrote:  There is no such statement in the Bible that someone is going to be punished FOREVER.
The only ones who are going to be punished FOREVER are Lucifer, his demons and sons of Perdition. Atheists(non-believers) are not in this group.

This is from the NIV Bible.

Matthew 25 41-46
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


Mark 9: 42-48
42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] 45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] [c] 47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’

Revelation 14 9-12
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


I took the liberty of underline some key lines in each verse.

"yebuh...that's not what they meant.(_insert anything_)"

I pulled the very verses you said weren't in there. I doesn't matter what you "think" they mean. The words and the descriptions are right there.

(02-10-2015 11:48 AM)Alla Wrote:  But there is term as "eternal punishment". It doesn't mean that someone will be punished forever.
"Eternal punishment" is called "eternal" so people will know that it comes from eternity or eternal God/Gods. It doesn't mean it will last FOREVER.

I would have thought that as a person that knew multiple languages you would have a better understanding on how they worked.

Words have meanings. It's how we can communicate using verbal tones. We use words to describe, feelings, objects, people, actions etc etc. In order for words to work the people that use them frequently need to have an understanding of there meanings.

Let's take this statement for example.

This Apple is Red.

[Image: redapplepic.jpg]

A person that understands the language could interpret this as The Apple (The round fruit of a tree of the rose family, which typically has thin skin and crisp flesh.) is Red (same color as blood, a Coke can, or a stop sign). People around could all agree that the words in this sentence are true. Because the words are being used in there proper context.

Now let's say a person came along and held up the same object and said.

This Apple is Dinosaur.

Even if this person believed this to be true. Everyone around would look in bewilderment. Or for the men in the white coats. If your not using the proper word no one would understand.

"But Sensei, no one would call an Apple a Dinosaur."

And I say "Shut up voice in my head, I trying make a point!"

Ok let's tweek this a little then.

This Apple is Orange.

Colors don't have definitions. We are limited by language to describe them. We can only attribute them to simaler colors. So with no definition a person could say an apple is orange but they still would be wrong in the eyes of everyone around them. Why? Because that word is already associating with specific range of color. Orange wouldn't fall into that.

So back to the subject at hand What is the definition of Eternity.

Latin
Aeternus : without beginning or end.
French
Eternite: time immeasurable
English
Eternity:Time without an end.
Hebrew
נצח: infinite time
Ukrainian
вічність: Час без кінця.

Eternal: Lasting or existing forever, without end or beginning.

We can see in every definition it talks about an extent of time that is unending. No where in any of these words. Latin to the usage in Hebrew dose it say an extent of time, a long time, Ages will pass. It's a continual immeasurable extent of time. YOUR definition is false.

Ancient Hebrews had words for long periods of time. Even slang.

גילים translation Ages.
Definition: A considerable length of time.
"Wow! It's been ages since I've seen you." "And so his memory lived on threw the ages."

40 days 40 nights. Was slang for a really long time. It appears a number of times in the bible when they want to exaggerate time passing. Or when they don't know how long it would have taken.

So what is the point of all this? The point is you're changing the definition of the word.
And I've shown you several different languages and there definitions.With none that match your definition. You're calling an Apple, Orange!

Another point is if this book is supposed to be a divine message from high above. The manuscript of that deity only shows the deity's ingonarance.

If the script reads.

"Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

But what the deity really ment was.

"POPCORN! POPCORN! GET IT WHILE IT"S HOT!"

It communication is wasted because our to understandings of the words are so far apart we will never get any message.

If the definition can only be interpreted by "prophets" Then it's a waste of paper. If words don't mean what they mean, and are open to interpretation to whoever reads then they are of no use.

Let's say the two lines I stated above rang true. And the "Prophet" reads it all see's it for POPCORN POPCORN! No one else would ever figure it out. He could say whatever he wanted like "Give me tidings." "Or I need the biggest silly hat."And the message is lost.

If we're pretending that a Divine being has transcribed this threw some means. If the message can't be understood clearly by the masses, its message is lost. You might as well say An Apple is Dinosaur. This gose for any "Holy" book, but when it is required to fully understand an ancient and dead language to get understanding of what a "god" wanted you to do with your Sundays. I feel it would be a lazy god.

(02-10-2015 11:48 AM)Alla Wrote:  So, only true prophets understand true meaning of words "eternal punishment".
I just shared with all of you this knowledge whether you need it or not.

I know you fancy yourself as a "True Prophet" Alla. But your very statement disproves you are any such thing.

"YaBuh. Sensei I never called myself a True Prophet."

You stated you understood the true meaning of eternal punishment. You also stated ONLY true prophet understand it meaning. Since ONLY true prophets understand it's meaning and you understanding it's meaning means you see yourself as a true Prophet.

Look at that. I just shared with you a shit ton of knowledge whether you understand it or not.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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03-10-2015, 07:33 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
(03-10-2015 12:13 PM)Alla Wrote:  ...and angels do not have wings.

Isaiah 6:2:
Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. (KJV)
Seraphim were standing above him: each had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he flew. (Darby)
Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. (ESV)

Ezekiel 1:5-6
Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. (KJV)
Also out of the midst thereof, the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one of them had four wings. (Darby)
And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. (ESV)

Try again.
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03-10-2015, 07:43 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
(03-10-2015 07:33 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 12:13 PM)Alla Wrote:  ...and angels do not have wings.

Isaiah 6:2:
Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. (KJV)
Seraphim were standing above him: each had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he flew. (Darby)
Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. (ESV)

Ezekiel 1:5-6
Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. (KJV)
Also out of the midst thereof, the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one of them had four wings. (Darby)
And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. (ESV)

Try again.

What she meant to say is that angels don't have wings like the ones on airplanes. They do, however, have wings like the ones of really large birds of prey. The devil is in the details. Tongue

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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03-10-2015, 07:54 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
(03-10-2015 07:43 PM)Anjele Wrote:  What she meant to say is that angels don't have wings like the ones on airplanes.
I digress. Silly me. Thumbsup
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03-10-2015, 09:09 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
(03-10-2015 07:33 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 12:13 PM)Alla Wrote:  ...and angels do not have wings.

Isaiah 6:2:
Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. (KJV)
Seraphim were standing above him: each had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he flew. (Darby)
Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. (ESV)

Ezekiel 1:5-6
Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. (KJV)
Also out of the midst thereof, the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one of them had four wings. (Darby)
And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. (ESV)

Try again.
I was talking about angels. Angels don't have wings.
Isaiah and Ezekiel do not talk about angels in these verses.

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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03-10-2015, 09:24 PM
RE: Eternal Punishment
"Eternal punishment doesn't actually mean the punishment is eternal". Thanks for the laugh. Big Grin
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