Eternal Torment
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05-10-2016, 07:06 AM
Eternal Torment
This will be a quick one. My question is that if the church didn't teach eternal torment for all these years would as many people be Christian? I ask this because my friend said that they would be sad if I died because I would be in hell for being an atheist. The thing is that they only want to believe and admitted it. So obviously they don't care about the truth, but comfort instead.

Also what do you all think the bible really teaches? Eternal torment, annihilationism, or universal reconcilition( all eventually gets saved). Some will argue that their loving God doesn't torment unbelievers in hell so he either destroys them or eventually saves them all. Thanks
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05-10-2016, 07:39 AM
RE: Eternal Torment
(05-10-2016 07:06 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  This will be a quick one. My question is that if the church didn't teach eternal torment for all these years would as many people be Christian? I ask this because my friend said that they would be sad if I died because I would be in hell for being an atheist. The thing is that they only want to believe and admitted it. So obviously they don't care about the truth, but comfort instead.

Also what do you all think the bible really teaches? Eternal torment, annihilationism, or universal reconcilition( all eventually gets saved). Some will argue that their loving God doesn't torment unbelievers in hell so he either destroys them or eventually saves them all. Thanks

The old testament doesn't mention hell, it mentions Sheol, others far more knowledgeable than I don't even think the OT asserts there is an afterlife, there are scriptures that state pretty clearly that once you are dead, that's it.

The new testament created the idea of hell, without hell, there's no reason to obey any commandments or even acknowledge their god. Why should anyone pay attention to anything in the Silly Book whatsoever if there is no negative consequence?

It's the only real power religion has -convincing you to fear the consequences of not believing, at it's core, it's a charlatan's sales gimmick.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-10-2016, 08:12 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2016 08:28 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Eternal Torment
(05-10-2016 07:06 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  This will be a quick one. My question is that if the church didn't teach eternal torment for all these years would as many people be Christian? I ask this because my friend said that they would be sad if I died because I would be in hell for being an atheist. The thing is that they only want to believe and admitted it. So obviously they don't care about the truth, but comfort instead.

Also what do you all think the bible really teaches? Eternal torment, annihilationism, or universal reconcilition( all eventually gets saved). Some will argue that their loving God doesn't torment unbelievers in hell so he either destroys them or eventually saves them all. Thanks

That's actually not true. At all.
(Most religionists, actually know very little detains about their own cults.)
Christian (mainstream) theology has always left room for honest dissent.
Catholic theology would say that if you honestly, (assuming a properly formed conscience), followed your conscience, you would not be damned.

Fundamentalists on the other hand, who labor under the false notion that somehow one can chose to believe something, may not agree. But American Fundamentalism is the minority, even in Christian camps.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-10-2016, 08:19 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2016 08:51 AM by yakherder.)
RE: Eternal Torment
You could start bringing up all the laws they break (I don't know a single person that doesn't violate at least two or three commandments regularly) and tell them not to worry because they'll be in hell with you.

'Murican Canadian
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05-10-2016, 08:24 AM
RE: Eternal Torment
(05-10-2016 07:39 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 07:06 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  This will be a quick one. My question is that if the church didn't teach eternal torment for all these years would as many people be Christian? I ask this because my friend said that they would be sad if I died because I would be in hell for being an atheist. The thing is that they only want to believe and admitted it. So obviously they don't care about the truth, but comfort instead.

Also what do you all think the bible really teaches? Eternal torment, annihilationism, or universal reconcilition( all eventually gets saved). Some will argue that their loving God doesn't torment unbelievers in hell so he either destroys them or eventually saves them all. Thanks

The old testament doesn't mention hell, it mentions Sheol, others far more knowledgeable than I don't even think the OT asserts there is an afterlife, there are scriptures that state pretty clearly that once you are dead, that's it.

The new testament created the idea of hell, without hell, there's no reason to obey any commandments or even acknowledge their god. Why should anyone pay attention to anything in the Silly Book whatsoever if there is no negative consequence?

It's the only real power religion has -convincing you to fear the consequences of not believing, at it's core, it's a charlatan's sales gimmick.

That's what I was thinking. A lot of Christians will mention not wanting to go to hell in their testimonies.
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05-10-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: Eternal Torment
(05-10-2016 08:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 07:06 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  This will be a quick one. My question is that if the church didn't teach eternal torment for all these years would as many people be Christian? I ask this because my friend said that they would be sad if I died because I would be in hell for being an atheist. The thing is that they only want to believe and admitted it. So obviously they don't care about the truth, but comfort instead.

Also what do you all think the bible really teaches? Eternal torment, annihilationism, or universal reconcilition( all eventually gets saved). Some will argue that their loving God doesn't torment unbelievers in hell so he either destroys them or eventually saves them all. Thanks

That's actually not true. At all.
(Most religionists, actually know very little detains about their own cults.)
Christian (mainstream) theology has always left room for honest dissent.
Catholic theology would say that if you honestly, (assuming a properly formed conscience), followed you conscience, you would not be damned.

Fundamentalists on the other hand, who labor under the false notion that somehow one can chose to believe something, may not agree. But American Fundamentalism is the minority, even in Christian camps.

Interesting. I thought most the church taught eternal torment though?
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05-10-2016, 08:31 AM
RE: Eternal Torment
I think half of the Christians believe because that is what they were raised with and it is easier to just continue instead of saying their entire childhood was a lie and all their role models were wrong.

The other half yes I think they are scared of death and just want to find a way to escape being 100% gone. I read the Left Behind Kids series and no joke in it they were getting close to dying so they would convert. I was sitting there questioning the book out loud like a crazy person "Uh doesn't that tell you right there that your decision was based on fear and not logic?" But of course their answer for that (cause surprisingly the character asked summin similar to that) was "Oh no it's fine, at least you found God. It just means you looked to him when you needed him most." WTF
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05-10-2016, 08:33 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2016 08:37 AM by mlmooney.)
RE: Eternal Torment
(05-10-2016 08:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's actually not true. At all.
(Most religionists, actually know very little detains about their own cults.)
Christian (mainstream) theology has always left room for honest dissent.
Catholic theology would say that if you honestly, (assuming a properly formed conscience), followed your conscience, you would not be damned.

Fundamentalists on the other hand, who labor under the false notion that somehow one can chose to believe something, may not agree. But American Fundamentalism is the minority, even in Christian camps.

^ This.

My husband is Catholic and said that according to the Pope I get to go to heaven simply because I am a good person regardless of me being an atheist.
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05-10-2016, 08:34 AM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2016 03:56 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Eternal Torment
(05-10-2016 08:27 AM)goldenarm Wrote:  
(05-10-2016 08:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's actually not true. At all.
(Most religionists, actually know very little details about their own cults.)
Christian (mainstream) theology has always left room for honest dissent.
Catholic theology would say that if you honestly, (assuming a properly formed conscience), followed you conscience, you would not be damned.

Fundamentalists on the other hand, who labor under the false notion that somehow one can chose to believe something, may not agree. But American Fundamentalism is the minority, even in Christian camps.

Interesting. I thought most the church taught eternal torment though?

They do not. In fact I bet mainstream theology (as taught at Harvard, Fordham, Princeton etc) doesn't EVEN MENTION "hell" any more. It's passé. If you REALLY want to "get the goats" of the religionists, you can school them on the origins of the concept, and how the Hebrews (including St. Paul) did not even believe in immortality for everyone. It's a LATE occurring notion.

From here : http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid174798
(discussion of the Hebrew concept of an after-life) --->
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-10-2016, 08:37 AM
RE: Eternal Torment
(05-10-2016 08:31 AM)mlmooney Wrote:  I think half of the Christians believe because that is what they were raised with and it is easier to just continue instead of saying their entire childhood was a lie and all their role models were wrong.

The other half yes I think they are scared of death and just want to find a way to escape being 100% gone. I read the Left Behind Kids series and no joke in it they were getting close to dying so they would convert. I was sitting there questioning the book out loud like a crazy person "Uh doesn't that tell you right there that your decision was based on fear and not logic?" But of course their answer for that (cause surprisingly the character asked summin similar to that) was "Oh no it's fine, at least you found God. It just means you looked to him when you needed him most." WTF

Exactly. The fear factor is a big deal for Christians. I've not read those books, but I've watched the movies. The whole thing is based on fear too because if you don't get saved in time then Jesus could come back and then the world will be hell for 7 years.
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