Eternity and boredom.
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04-11-2014, 01:09 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(04-11-2014 11:31 AM)OddGamer Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 10:35 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  If eternalism is correct you've already existed for eternity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_...y_of_time)

If eternalism is correct an eternal existence is not so bad is it?
Total novice (me) weighing in. However, reading and thinking a bit.. I come to the conclusion that eternalism does not state that we 'exist forever' in the same way that the conventional view of the universe does not despite the energy of our existence having been present since the big bang and will be present billions of years from now. Eternalism, at best, would imply that our lives already exist in past and future with birth and death merely being the end points of that existence. Which is not, in any way, similar to the concept of an eternal existence in the convetional sence.

I have loved ones who have died and I don't believe they are gone simply because I believe the past is just as valid of an existence as my present. Even if God, heaven and hell do not exist, I will still believe the humans are eternal beings. I have and always will have existed. My existence transcends some tick of the clock.
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04-11-2014, 01:14 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(04-11-2014 01:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have and always will have existed. My existence transcends some tick of the clock.

So tell me, before you were born, what was your life like? Consider

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04-11-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
The way that Christians have described it to me basically can be summed up like this.


"Human suffering is caused by Sin."
"Sin exists because God gave Man free will."
"Hell exists because Sin cannot enter Heaven."
"In Heaven there is no suffering or Sin."

My conclusion:

Therefore in heaven there is no free will.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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04-11-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(03-11-2014 06:56 AM)OddGamer Wrote:  Is eternity torture no matter what?
Suppose you have books describing each experience you have.
Christianity is a very selfish perspective. Not that I'm saying selfishness is a bad thing.
When I fell in love, I was interested in her, her thoughts, her desires, it was exciting getting to know her, learning about her, learning from her. What could I do for her in return? Try and make her smile, make her excited about life. Surprise her, show her new experiences, support her...

With the Christians it doesn't seem to be about god, or what humanity can do for the god. It's always about what the god does for humanity. They don't seem to consider what life would be like for their god.

Consider this. The Christian god supposedly knows everything already. Knows what will happen already. This god is also supposed to be unchanging and timeless.
What would eternity be like for the god that knows everything?
It has nothing to learn, nothing to discover, no new experiences, no surprises, no risk or danger, no chance of making mistakes, no chance of self improvement. This would be like reading a book that you already know everything about. Having a perfect memory you wouldn't even need to look at the page, you know already what the next word is. But you still read it. It takes some time to read. By the end of the book, you have learned nothing, everything was as per expected, just as it was the last time you read the book, then you decide to read the book again. Not because you might have missed something, but just because there is no alternative. You have time on your hands (eternity in fact) and you can't just do nothing, so you read the book again. There is no point reading a different book, because you have read them all, you know everything, every word, every hidden meaning, every nuance already.
Creating a universe and watching it unfold for 14 billion years, exactly the way you knew it would unfold, with no surprises, no new observations, no discoveries would be just like reading a book over and over again. With a perfect memory and no capacity to learn or be surprised. Why bother creating a universe? If I were this god, rather than create a universe I'd just blink myself out of existence and be done with it.

Of course the Christian folk are going to say that their god did it for us (humanity) and that it shows the unlimited love that their god has.
If the Christians truly did love their god they would have pleaded with it to blink itself out of existence rather than for the god to have to endure an eternity of droll torturous boredom.
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04-11-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
Stevil,

The funny thing is boredom is an emotion belonging to an imperfect being. So a perfect being such as the Christian god wouldn't be bored. And yet, as you pointed out, it would have everything and know everything. There could be nothing new and exciting. There would be no need to create a universe or anything in it. There would be no purpose to doing so - nothing to learn, nothing to test, nothing to entertain oneself with. The only thing that would makes sense would be for that god to simply exist for eternity and do nothing else. But then how could such a being not be bored? The concept of godly perfection and therefore the Christian god makes no sense.

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04-11-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
Ennui is a real affliction for some. I think of eternal life, as well, eternal life.

I like napping, eating and having sex. I like reading books. I like hearing stories. I think I will still like these things a long time from now. I like creating things and think I'll still enjoy them years from now. I think I am well paced, being finite in intelligence, as are we all, to learn from an omniscient being across eternity. I like some relationships, and there will be billions of people to relate to across time in eternity future.

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04-11-2014, 03:56 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(04-11-2014 02:05 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  "Hell exists because Sin cannot enter Heaven."

That always struck me as a complete non-sequitor. I get that there'd have to be somewhere "outside" of heaven where the sin could be confined (assuming god couldn't just make it vanish) but the need for eternal torture could only be conceived by a psychopath.

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04-11-2014, 07:58 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(04-11-2014 01:14 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 01:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have and always will have existed. My existence transcends some tick of the clock.

So tell me, before you were born, what was your life like? Consider

Life and existence are not the same thing...you conflate the two.
The length of my life is finite but my existence is eternal. Me the day I was born has not faded from existence.....it is as equally valid as my now existence.
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04-11-2014, 09:27 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(04-11-2014 07:58 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Life and existence are not the same thing...you conflate the two.
The length of my life is finite but my existence is eternal. Me the day I was born has not faded from existence.....it is as equally valid as my now existence.
What was your existence doing before your current life was consumated?
How come YOU were born not knowing much about anything, not knowing language, not knowing how to walk, fend for yourself etc. Was was the point of your prior existence?
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04-11-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(04-11-2014 01:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have and always will have existed. My existence transcends some tick of the clock.

What did your face look like before your parents were born?

#sigh
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