Eternity and boredom.
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05-11-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 01:43 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 02:05 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  The way that Christians have described it to me basically can be summed up like this.


"Human suffering is caused by Sin."
"Sin exists because God gave Man free will."
"Hell exists because Sin cannot enter Heaven."
"In Heaven there is no suffering or Sin."

My conclusion:

Therefore in heaven there is no free will.

So are any theists going to actually address this?

I wouldn't say there is no free will. I would say that if Heaven exists there is suffering of some sort.
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05-11-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 01:12 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-11-2014 09:50 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Then you don't believe in eternal life, but only eternal existence... is that what you're saying? Consider

Sure....I would agree with that statement. I don't rule out the possibility of an afterlife though. I suspect when I am dead that will be an end point in my conscious experience.

I'm surprised that you're not committed to there being an afterlife. There may hope for you yet. Tongue

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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05-11-2014, 03:55 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 10:35 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I just showed you the biblical difference between infinite and eternal.
(05-11-2014 10:07 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Definition: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.[/b]

So the biblical definition of "Eternal" is just a really long, long time which is, if you read the fine print, which we're desperately hoping you won't do, not eternal at all but rather a matter of perspective.

Is it just me or does this smack of Relativism? I wonder how "all-loving", "all-knowing" and "all-powerful" translate.

Tell me, what happens to my immortal and ever-lasting soul when your "eternity" comes to an end?
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05-11-2014, 08:17 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 10:58 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 01:09 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have loved ones who have died and I don't believe they are gone simply because I believe the past is just as valid of an existence as my present. Even if God, heaven and hell do not exist, I will still believe the humans are eternal beings. I have and always will have existed. My existence transcends some tick of the clock.

I get this. You exist now and when you die you will have existed. You will always have existed. Or no matter what happens in the future you exist now and will always have existed now. That is a fact unless somebody in the future invents time travel to the past. That doesn't seem likely to me but who knows.

I would use the word "exist" and not "existed". Does a place cease to exists when you move out of it? No? Why then should a point in time cease to exist when you move out of it? My past and my future exists in the exact same sense that my present exists.
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05-11-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 08:17 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  My past and my future exists in the exact same sense that my present exists.

Now that actually merits consideration. ... Did your kid hack your account?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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05-11-2014, 08:47 PM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 08:17 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-11-2014 10:58 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  I get this. You exist now and when you die you will have existed. You will always have existed. Or no matter what happens in the future you exist now and will always have existed now. That is a fact unless somebody in the future invents time travel to the past. That doesn't seem likely to me but who knows.

I would use the word "exist" and not "existed". Does a place cease to exists when you move out of it? No? Why then should a point in time cease to exist when you move out of it? My past and my future exists in the exact same sense that my present exists.
Well I wouldn't go that far. If I moved out of a place like say an apartment I wouldn't say that I live there. I'd say that I lived there. I no longer live there. But I will have always lived there in that particular time in the past.
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05-11-2014, 08:55 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2014 09:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 08:47 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(05-11-2014 08:17 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I would use the word "exist" and not "existed". Does a place cease to exists when you move out of it? No? Why then should a point in time cease to exist when you move out of it? My past and my future exists in the exact same sense that my present exists.
Well I wouldn't go that far. If I moved out of a place like say an apartment I wouldn't say that I live there. I'd say that I lived there. I no longer live there. But I will have always lived there in that particular time in the past.

I think Heywood is going all Billy Pilgrim and Tralfamadorian here. I'm actually impressed.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-11-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 02:08 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-11-2014 01:43 PM)Winterwolf00 Wrote:  So are any theists going to actually address this?

I wouldn't say there is no free will. I would say that if Heaven exists there is suffering of some sort.

So heaven isn't a place without suffering?
That's different then what every other Christian has ever told me.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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06-11-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
(05-11-2014 08:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-11-2014 08:47 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Well I wouldn't go that far. If I moved out of a place like say an apartment I wouldn't say that I live there. I'd say that I lived there. I no longer live there. But I will have always lived there in that particular time in the past.

I think Heywood is going all Billy Pilgrim and Tralfamadorian here. I'm actually impressed.

"I am a Tralfamadorian, seeing all time as you might see a stretch of the Rocky Mountains. All time is all time. It does not change. It does not lend itself to warnings or explanations. It simply is."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-11-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Eternity and boredom.
When the human brain evolved from living in the moment to contemplating our future, that's when we learned to control our environment by planting crops and domesticating animals, building houses and cities, keeping cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

The concept of heaven is just another way to control our environment. Humans need to control all aspects of living so heaven or hell is a simple extension of that.

Besides, how could something so smart and wonderful as ourselves just simply....die? We're obviously better than all the other animals on this planet. We're just "special". In fact we're SO special that we don't die, we live forever.

What a lot of wishful thinking. What a huge ego humans have. It's all a load of crap.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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