Ethics, what ethics?
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20-12-2013, 11:11 PM
Ethics, what ethics?
I am currently in the middle of a debate with a theist via email. I have been very respectful, non-condescending and have done my best to point out her fallacies and to use documentation for most of my assertions.

The funny thing is she challenged me out of the blue and laid all the ground rules without consulting me, which I found right in line with a Christian. So, even though she set the parameters, I accepted and proceeded to absolutley stun her, so much so that her response was priceless. She admitted she was in over her head and was enlisting a "friend" from her church to help her with the debate. She then proceeded to literally copy and paste her friend's entire reply to my stances and evidence, etc.

So I called her out on it, told her it was not only intellectually dishonest, but unethical to let a complete stranger read my personal thoughts and to pass the buck rather than admit defeat and have respect for the hard work I put into it, etc. I stopped short of saying it wasn't very Christian of her. Smile

She asked if we could start over and she promised to do her best to debate on her own and would refer to the CCC for her responses. It's so typical for a Christian. "I can't think for myself, I have to enlist a friend or refer to a doctrine to see how I think."

She then asked me what teachings from the CCC outraged me, besides god and Jesus. I almost LOL'd when I read it and pointed out me being outraged by god/Jesus was like her being outraged by pink unicorns on Mars. While I am against all religion, I wasn't looking to throw daggers. She just automatically thought I was angry because I was an atheist and my hatred was automatically focused on the Catholic Church and that it had a bearing in why I didn't believe there's enough evidence to prove there's a supreme being.

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21-12-2013, 12:57 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
Yabut... is she hawt?

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21-12-2013, 11:04 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
She's my sister, so, gross.

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21-12-2013, 09:39 PM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
It's a rather common misconception that former Catholics just hate the church.

This convo doesn't sound too abnormal.
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22-12-2013, 08:32 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
It isn't entirely dishonest of her to enlist help if she's truly out of her depth. It would have been good form to ask you first and to cite her source when copy-N-pasting. I'd actually have to rate her as a fair bit more honest than many theists we get because she actually admitted that you'd stumped her.

You're likely to get that "Why are you so angry?" BS a lot. We don't believe in God so that must be a reaction from anger. Rolleyes

Heck, invite her over here for a chat. We don't accept doctrine or dogma so it'll be much more interesting. Let her know that most of us don't bite.
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22-12-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
Isn't it funny when you get into a debate and then someone says, "I don't know any of what you're talking about. So instead, I'm going to talk to someone who knows more than me, agree with everything they say so I can fulfill my confirmation bias without acknowledging that you have a good point."

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22-12-2013, 09:09 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
Pale, I find it unethical to challenge someone to a debate, realize you are out if your depth and then get someone else to fight your battles, hence the title of this thread. Have you ever seen William Lane Craig have someone thrash him in a debate segment only to have him solicit help from the audience midway through the debate? Of course not. I was glad she was upfront about it, but I found it a terrible invasion of privacy without consent.

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22-12-2013, 09:29 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
I'm sorry to be dense, but what is the CCC?

I have laughed, in bitterness and agony of heart, at the contrast between what I seem and what I am!
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22-12-2013, 12:26 PM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
(22-12-2013 09:09 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Pale, I find it unethical to challenge someone to a debate, realize you are out if your depth and then get someone else to fight your battles, hence the title of this thread. Have you ever seen William Lane Craig have someone thrash him in a debate segment only to have him solicit help from the audience midway through the debate? Of course not. I was glad she was upfront about it, but I found it a terrible invasion of privacy without consent.

As I said, she should have asked you first. She should also have been more upfront about where her information was coming from. It also sounds like she should have made more of an effort to understand both your points and those whoever assisted her. Copy-N-Paste debating shows you just didn't learn anything.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the point of this debate? Regardless of her behavior it may be counterproductive to have called her on her dishonesty.
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22-12-2013, 12:41 PM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
CCC is the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The point of the debate was a total mystery to me. It started out with a FB comment I made when someone posted that stupid twins in the womb analogy. Out of the blue she messaged me on FB asking if I ever read the works of Josephus. After I completely shocked her by knowing more about him and his works than she did, that's when she asked to debate. I said sure, and that's when it all began.

I don't think telling her I didn't appreciate her dishonesty was a mistake. She apologized and has since given it her best effort. And even if she is still using her friends at least she's making a concerted effort to cover it up.

Check out my blog: http://www.aisforatheist.blogspot.com It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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