Ethics, what ethics?
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26-12-2013, 08:41 PM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
Nah, I wasn't rebutted. Her friend mostly missed the point of the debate anyway, but it was still underhanded and sad. You're right, it wasn't about winning, it was about showing each other our stances and points of view, but she failed miserably at that because she never showed me her side, it was someone else's. That is the point.

I get so tired of the theists I'm in contact with on a daily basis not having their own opinions, needing instead to turn to a book or a church elder to learn what they should be thinking. I feel so sad for them. I lose a lot of respect for them because they don't learn it and filter it for themselves, they just recite it like a cult.

Check out my blog: http://www.aisforatheist.blogspot.com It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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28-12-2013, 05:57 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
Quote:I get so tired of the theists I'm in contact with on a daily basis not having their own opinions, needing instead to turn to a book or a church elder to learn what they should be thinking. I feel so sad for them. I lose a lot of respect for them because they don't learn it and filter it for themselves, they just recite it like a cult.

WillHopp - I learn what I should be thinking from others as do most people - its just getting the right filtering through critical reasoning - but even this I have learned from others. True there are some radicals who opened the way & enlightened the path for others lets say the Aristotle for critical reasoning syllogisms or the Newtons & Einstein's in science - but even their ideas are built on the ideas taken from others. Without Aristotle we may never have had a Newton who largely replaced his "physics" and without Newton we wouldn't have an Einstein who refined Newtons system...and so on.
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28-12-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
There's no denying we all are reflections of our influences. The problem here isn't that. If you don't know the meaning of a word, that's perfectly acceptable. You run to a dictionary to look up its definition to gain knowledge. But when you're asked your opinion on a certain subject, you give it, you don't run to a book to look up how you should think. THAT is the difference here. Tell me your thoughts on X, not what your CCC says its stance is on X and then mindlessly regurgitate it as your stance. Then you're merely a puppet, and that's what is so sad.

Check out my blog: http://www.aisforatheist.blogspot.com It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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28-12-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
Quote:Tell me your thoughts on X, not what your CCC says its stance is on X and then mindlessly regurgitate it as your stance. Then you're merely a puppet, and that's what is so sad.

I understand what you mean by the sadness of regurgitating, however don't we all somewhat regurgitate when we quote what "the experts say" on a stance be it in physics, biology or any other topic one is not a professional. My specialist area is medicine but I often sound like I'm also an expert in physics - but to be honest most of it is regurgitated from those qualified in physics. Unless what you mean is at least quote who the idea is from i.e "Einstein says E=MC2" and the CCC says "Jesus was resurrected" even though I personally cannot derive E=MC2 from 1st principles. I don't think we expect everyone to constantly say "X said" for every belief or discussion we have unless we are publishing some peer reviewed paper.
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28-12-2013, 12:21 PM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
(24-12-2013 09:29 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 11:11 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  She asked if we could start over and she promised to do her best to debate on her own and would refer to the CCC for her responses. It's so typical for a Christian. "I can't think for myself, I have to enlist a friend or refer to a doctrine to see how I think."


What's a CCC? EDIT: Nevermind, I see now, but does the CCC claim atheists are atheists because they are mad at gawd/church/etc?

Quote:She then asked me what teachings from the CCC outraged me, besides god and Jesus. I almost LOL'd when I read it and pointed out me being outraged by god/Jesus was like her being outraged by pink unicorns on Mars. While I am against all religion, I wasn't looking to throw daggers. She just automatically thought I was angry because I was an atheist and my hatred was automatically focused on the Catholic Church and that it had a bearing in why I didn't believe there's enough evidence to prove there's a supreme being.
That's a standard fallback position when they have been beaten -- an ad hominem (fallacy) assertion that we are atheists because we are angry at their church, angry at some xtard that supposedly slighted us, angry at their deity, or just plain angry.

It is an admission of defeat.


EDIT -- also, as far as the "mad at the church" thing -- I would call into question the sanity and rationality of ANY person who isn't mad at the catholic church over their global cover-up (all the way to the pope) of their embedded pedophole ring.



Hey yanno what? I'm mad at the church and I've Been mad at the church since I was about 9 yrs old. I think if we have warranted reasons for being mad at the church then so be it. It is what it is. I don't care if you're 9 or 79 or anywhere in between.......if you're pissed off with zero resolution (of which there actually is NONE) then you're pissed.

Some of us are just........ well pissed.Blink And it's Not immature, it's Not irrational....... pissed is just that.....pissed. And should require no further explanation or rationalization for being such. Pissed is why I left the christian church and although three attempts were later made to go back - I just ended up MORE pissed with each attempt.

bullshit is bullshit - regardless of your age or personal experience that led you to being Pissed!

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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28-12-2013, 01:20 PM
RE: Ethics, what ethics?
Baruch, I'm wondering if you are intentionally being obtuse. An opinion is rendered from your brain, not a book. Do you like the color green? Can you answer that without conferring with someone or some publication? Of course, it's your opinion. You don't go to your teacher or an encyclopedia to see what they think of the color green before answering. It wasn't Einstein's opinion that E=MC2; it was the result of his hard work, research and testing. He didn't just say to himself, "Hey you know what? I think energy and mass are the same thing." He had to prove it. It's not even close to being a good analogy on your part.

When it comes to the debate I'm having with her, if I said, " What do you think of in intro fertilization?" She would go to the CCC and then tell me. She wouldn't just say, "I think it's good for people who can't conceive." She would go to the CCC and see that it says they frown in it and think children should only be made through the love and bond of a married heterosexual couple. And she would agree with it, even if it goes against everything she thinks in her heart.

Check out my blog: http://www.aisforatheist.blogspot.com It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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