Europe, Russia and Trump
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-07-2016, 11:22 AM
Europe, Russia and Trump
So there is a bunch of hoopla about this.


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-co...pe-n613911


Quote:Trump said the U.S. would not necessarily defend new NATO members in the Baltics in the event of Russian attack if he were elected to the White House.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
Imagine Russia brought back the Warsaw Pact and Mexico and Canada joined. How do you suppose the US would react?

I've honestly not given sufficient thought to this issue, and I'm probably not informed enough to have a real opinion, but I'm really not sure why it's a good idea for this country to accept an obligation to get into a shooting war on behalf of the Baltic countries.

I don't know. This may be the nut for the blind squirrel. I am interested, though, to watch his supporters in the conservative press contort themselves to support this. Similar to Jon Stewart's comments last week, I think there is about to be some serious hypocrisy on display.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 11:35 AM by dancefortwo.)
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 11:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  So there is a bunch of hoopla about this.


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-co...pe-n613911


Quote:Trump said the U.S. would not necessarily defend new NATO members in the Baltics in the event of Russian attack if he were elected to the White House.

The Great Dictator Don is at it again.

[Image: tumblr_mylbl1yXTP1rlxl36o6_400.gif]

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes dancefortwo's post
25-07-2016, 02:44 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 02:47 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
Trump said it depends on whether or not the NATO countries in question fulfill their financial obligations. I don't see what's wrong with putting political pressure on the member countries that fail to hold up their end of the bargain (see below).

[Image: 160415170401-nato-gdp-2-780x439.jpg]

"Of the 28 countries in the alliance, only five -- the U.S., Greece, Poland, Estonia and the U.K. -- meet the target."
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/15/news/nat...countries/

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Vosur's post
25-07-2016, 02:48 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 02:44 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Trump said it depends on whether or not the NATO countries in question fulfill their financial obligations. I don't see what's wrong with putting political pressure on the member countries that fail to hold up their end of the bargain (see below).

[Image: 160415170401-nato-gdp-2-780x439.jpg]

"Of the 28 countries in the alliance, only five -- the U.S., Greece, Poland, Estonia and the U.K. -- meet the target."
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/15/news/nat...countries/

Yabbut, the delinquent countries are not the Balkan countries?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 02:48 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 02:44 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Trump said it depends on whether or not the NATO countries in question fulfill their financial obligations. I don't see what's wrong with putting political pressure on the member countries that fail to hold up their end of the bargain (see below).

[Image: 160415170401-nato-gdp-2-780x439.jpg]

"Of the 28 countries in the alliance, only five -- the U.S., Greece, Poland, Estonia and the U.K. -- meet the target."
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/15/news/nat...countries/

Yabbut, the delinquent countries are not the Balkan countries?
Well, two of the three Baltic states are. Estonia fulfills their NATO obligations, but Lithuania and Latvia only spend around 1% of their GDP on defense.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Vosur's post
25-07-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
To be fair, NATO probably wouldn't even defend itself if attacked.

'Murican Canadian
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 03:01 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 11:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  So there is a bunch of hoopla about this.


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-co...pe-n613911


Quote:Trump said the U.S. would not necessarily defend new NATO members in the Baltics in the event of Russian attack if he were elected to the White House.

Trump had an important caveat in his position, and this is not a minor detail to be ignored and overlooked by reporting. His caveat was that the NATO member states would be required to be living up to their obligations in order to receive protection. Why bother having treaty membership obligations if a country can get the benefits of membership without meeting their obligations? It seems rather obvious that such a treaty could not be sustainable.

I am not a big fan of Trump (although I admit to being even less of a fan of Clinton), but it seems that the breathless reporting on this latest issue has been a result of journalistic laziness.

The real question not even being asked by journalists is "Are there currently any NATO members who do not meet their obligations?". That would be a relevant bit of information to provide readers. If all NATO members are in fact meeting their obligations, it would undercut Trump as having made an uninformed statement or perhaps show him raising a red herring. However, the fact that journalists have not bothered to address this obvious point tells me that they are reflexively reporting only their bias, and not doing their jobs.

This story suggests Trump may in fact be onto something:
Just Five of 28 NATO Members Meet Defense Spending Goal, Report Says
http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-calls-f...1434978193

The story says only five NATO members meet spending "goals". Well, if they are not spending obligations, the countries in NATO may not be failing to meet the requirements of the treaty, however it would be nice if a journalist reported actual, relevant information and dug into this issue. Why should the US be stuck paying twice the percentage of its GDP in defense spending while our NATO member friends skimp on their own defense spending?

The story in the OP quotes Estonia bitterly griping about their contributing a fair share without reporting the context that they are one of the very few who do. This CNN story reporting about this exact concern being raised by none other than Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton points out that Estonia is one of 5 out of 25 countries that actually do contribute their fair share (and of course, that means Latvia and Lithuania are not paying their fair share):
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/15/news/nat...countries/

This whole story is an example of precisely why Trump has any votes at all. Stupid reporters who cannot think or analyze anything for themselves churn out talking points spoon fed to them from partisans, and then call those talking points "journalism".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like BryanS's post
25-07-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 02:44 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Trump said it depends on whether or not the NATO countries in question fulfill their financial obligations. I don't see what's wrong with putting political pressure on the member countries that fail to hold up their end of the bargain (see below).

[Image: 160415170401-nato-gdp-2-780x439.jpg]

"Of the 28 countries in the alliance, only five -- the U.S., Greece, Poland, Estonia and the U.K. -- meet the target."
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/15/news/nat...countries/

I see you found the same story I did. Gee, it took a whole few minutes for us to google it and find the relevant information that SHOULD have been in any story about this topic.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like BryanS's post
25-07-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
So, NATO is dead if Trump wins?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: