Europe, Russia and Trump
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25-07-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
Maybe it needs to die. It was created to combat the Soviet Union and prevent its expansion into western Europe. Its a relic of the Cold War.

The ide that the US is going to fight Russia over, say, Lithuania, is absurd. And, including these countries on Russia's boarder is a giant provocation. Consider my Canada and Mexico examples. In fact, look at the real examples we have. In the 80s, Cuba and Russia pushed a communist government in Grenada and the Reagan administration, using rhetoric that sound eerily similar to how Putin defended his invasion of Crimea, went in and kicked them out. It was an aggressive war by the US, relying on the Monroe Doctrine, because we didn't want a pro-Russia government that close to us.

I'm not sure Trump is going far enough here.

Oh, the Baltics are the countries who touch the Baltic Sea. The Balkans are countries on the Balkan peninsula. Two different places. Reasonably far apart. Tongue

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25-07-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 11:31 AM)BnW Wrote:  Imagine Russia brought back the Warsaw Pact and Mexico and Canada joined. How do you suppose the US would react?

Mexico and Canada wouldn't but the US under Trump sure as shit would sign on.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-07-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 03:13 PM)BnW Wrote:  Maybe it needs to die. It was created to combat the Soviet Union and prevent its expansion into western Europe. Its a relic of the Cold War.

The ide that the US is going to fight Russia over, say, Lithuania, is absurd. And, including these countries on Russia's boarder is a giant provocation. Consider my Canada and Mexico examples. In fact, look at the real examples we have. In the 80s, Cuba and Russia pushed a communist government in Grenada and the Reagan administration, using rhetoric that sound eerily similar to how Putin defended his invasion of Crimea, went in and kicked them out. It was an aggressive war by the US, relying on the Monroe Doctrine, because we didn't want a pro-Russia government that close to us.

I'm not sure Trump is going far enough here.

Oh, the Baltics are the countries who touch the Baltic Sea. The Balkans are countries on the Balkan peninsula. Two different places. Reasonably far apart. Tongue


I'm of a mixed opinion on this. I'd like to not have to spend on our military to prop up Europe if they are unwilling to spend a commensurate amount to defend themselves.

However your analogy is not quite applicable--it would work better if the US invaded and annexed portions of our neighbors in the past few years. Crimea is no longer part of the Ukraine as it has been annexed by Russia. Or consider their annexation of South Osetia. Or perhaps consider their aggressive military positioning and their cyber attacks on Baltic states. Russia has a deeply seeded psychological need to recapture its "lost territory". It doesn't just want the Baltic states in its sphere of influence, it wants the Baltic states.
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25-07-2016, 03:28 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
No, it's not an exact analogy, but it makes the point.

As for Russia's ambitions regarding the Baltics, you may well be right, but who elected us the world's police? Shouldn't the UN step up here?

Btw, and a side point: can you imagine the Republican reaction if Clinton suggested anything like this? They would be apoplectic.

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25-07-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 03:24 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 03:13 PM)BnW Wrote:  Maybe it needs to die. It was created to combat the Soviet Union and prevent its expansion into western Europe. Its a relic of the Cold War.

The ide that the US is going to fight Russia over, say, Lithuania, is absurd. And, including these countries on Russia's boarder is a giant provocation. Consider my Canada and Mexico examples. In fact, look at the real examples we have. In the 80s, Cuba and Russia pushed a communist government in Grenada and the Reagan administration, using rhetoric that sound eerily similar to how Putin defended his invasion of Crimea, went in and kicked them out. It was an aggressive war by the US, relying on the Monroe Doctrine, because we didn't want a pro-Russia government that close to us.

I'm not sure Trump is going far enough here.

Oh, the Baltics are the countries who touch the Baltic Sea. The Balkans are countries on the Balkan peninsula. Two different places. Reasonably far apart. Tongue


I'm of a mixed opinion on this. I'd like to not have to spend on our military to prop up Europe if they are unwilling to spend a commensurate amount to defend themselves.

However your analogy is not quite applicable--it would work better if the US invaded and annexed portions of our neighbors in the past few years. Crimea is no longer part of the Ukraine as it has been annexed by Russia. Or consider their annexation of South Osetia. Or perhaps consider their aggressive military positioning and their cyber attacks on Baltic states. Russia has a deeply seeded psychological need to recapture its "lost territory". It doesn't just want the Baltic states in its sphere of influence, it wants the Baltic states.

Didn't people of the Crimea vote for their independence and in favor of being annexed to Russia?

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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25-07-2016, 06:43 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
So they say that Russians hacked into the democratic database and published all those remarks about the Bern.

There is lots of speculation that Putin is doing it to help his friend Trump...

Along with that, Trump's comment about not protecting the Balkans takes on a whole other meaning...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-07-2016, 07:13 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 06:43 PM)Dom Wrote:  So they say that Russians hacked into the democratic database and published all those remarks about the Bern.

There is lots of speculation that Putin is doing it to help his friend Trump...

Along with that, Trump's comment about not protecting the Balkans takes on a whole other meaning...

I just read about that.

Dunno...what effect it will have. Trump sure as shit isn't getting my vote either.

Do we vote for a douche or a shit sandwich?

*winces*


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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25-07-2016, 07:29 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
Neither. And so long as we feel the need to do so no matter how corrupt and full of shit we know they both are, we have only ourselves to blame for the fact that they don't feel the need to change their tune.

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25-07-2016, 07:32 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
This comment was certainly not well received in the Baltic where democracies fear the intervention of Russia. Considering how much country like Estonia or Lithuania have suffered during the Soviet era (especially during the holodomor) this isn't surprising. From my time there as a tourist, Baltic countries seem to really hate and fear Russian with a passion.

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25-07-2016, 07:34 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 07:32 PM)epronovost Wrote:  This comment was certainly not well received in the Baltic where democracies fear the intervention of Russia. Considering how much country like Estonia or Lithuania have suffered during the Soviet era (especially during the holodomor) this isn't surprising. From my time there as a tourist, Baltic countries seem to really hate and fear Russian with a passion.

The plot thickens.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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