Europe, Russia and Trump
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25-07-2016, 08:44 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 08:35 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 08:24 PM)Dom Wrote:  I do too.

And it's just too much coincidence for me -

Putin having spoken out in favor of Trump some time ago

Russian hackers publishing the dem letters about the Bern

Trump announcing he would not defend the Balkans

Too much coincidence.
Whoa whoa whoa. Wikileaks published the leaked DNC e-mails, not Russian hackers. There's no evidence that Russia was involved in it whatsoever.

Then why is the FBI investigating whether Russia was involved?

#sigh
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25-07-2016, 09:32 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 03:28 PM)BnW Wrote:  No, it's not an exact analogy, but it makes the point.

As for Russia's ambitions regarding the Baltics, you may well be right, but who elected us the world's police? Shouldn't the UN step up here?

Btw, and a side point: can you imagine the Republican reaction if Clinton suggested anything like this? They would be apoplectic.

If only the UN could, but with a Russian veto wielding seat on the security counsel, absolutely nothing can be done via the UN.
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25-07-2016, 09:33 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 03:46 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 03:24 PM)BryanS Wrote:  I'm of a mixed opinion on this. I'd like to not have to spend on our military to prop up Europe if they are unwilling to spend a commensurate amount to defend themselves.

However your analogy is not quite applicable--it would work better if the US invaded and annexed portions of our neighbors in the past few years. Crimea is no longer part of the Ukraine as it has been annexed by Russia. Or consider their annexation of South Osetia. Or perhaps consider their aggressive military positioning and their cyber attacks on Baltic states. Russia has a deeply seeded psychological need to recapture its "lost territory". It doesn't just want the Baltic states in its sphere of influence, it wants the Baltic states.

Didn't people of the Crimea vote for their independence and in favor of being annexed to Russia?


And 100% of the people of Iraq "voted" for Sadam Hussein (including one person who reportedly cast his vote by way of using his own blood to fill out the ballot).

People tend to vote how they are supposed to vote when under the gun, which Crimea was. It was newly under Russian military occupation when a snap vote was held.
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25-07-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 07:32 PM)epronovost Wrote:  This comment was certainly not well received in the Baltic where democracies fear the intervention of Russia. Considering how much country like Estonia or Lithuania have suffered during the Soviet era (especially during the holodomor) this isn't surprising. From my time there as a tourist, Baltic countries seem to really hate and fear Russian with a passion.

Well, then they should pay their fair share and not welch on their commitments to the alliance. That means spending 2% of their GDP on their own defense, which is a bargain for a country that is poor--they get the US military shield at a fraction of what it actually costs to get it. That's what they signed up for when they joined NATO. Estonia has done it, why not Latvia and Lithuania?
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26-07-2016, 01:51 AM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 08:24 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 08:15 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I like the idea of NATO. In theory.

I do too.

And it's just too much coincidence for me -

Putin having spoken out in favor of Trump some time ago

Russian hackers publishing the dem letters about the Bern

Trump announcing he would not defend the Balkans

Too much coincidence.

Baltic Dom, not Balkan

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26-07-2016, 02:13 AM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 09:33 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 03:46 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Didn't people of the Crimea vote for their independence and in favor of being annexed to Russia?


And 100% of the people of Iraq "voted" for Sadam Hussein (including one person who reportedly cast his vote by way of using his own blood to fill out the ballot).

People tend to vote how they are supposed to vote when under the gun, which Crimea was. It was newly under Russian military occupation when a snap vote was held.

Who said anything about 100% ? Russian are the majority in Crimea, around 60% , while Ukrainians are only 25%.

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26-07-2016, 02:24 AM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
It's another example of Trump's mouth being in gear while his brain was in neutral.
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26-07-2016, 03:19 AM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 08:22 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  ...
I think the EU could and should assume NATO's mission and duties.

I think that's likely as the third step of Muffsy's masterplan.

The first step was Brexit and the second step will be the UK aligning itself to the US.

After the US leave NATO, Turkey will join the EU and then Russia will join NATO.

After a few more steps the plan will be complete and the world will look like this and the new media giant, Frump News, owned by Trump and run by Roger Ailes will give us 24 hour coverage of the perpetual war:

[Image: baUmHSw.png]

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26-07-2016, 03:22 AM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(25-07-2016 08:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Then why is the FBI investigating whether Russia was involved?
I'm not in the FBI, so I don't know. Tongue

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26-07-2016, 04:33 AM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
Interesting article popped up on FB recently.
https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-....vya46jmc2

Also interesting if you follow the link to his answers to some of the comments is that Putin's invasion of the Crimea almost exactly parallels German invasion of the Sudetenland, right down to alleged abuses of ethnic Germans being used as the pretext for the war and an overwhelming vote in favour of the German occupation shortly after it became fact.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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