Europe, Russia and Trump
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26-07-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(26-07-2016 04:01 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 02:57 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  If a war between USA and Russia is what worries people , the Hillary as president is the one you should worry about , not Trump, imo.

I agree. She seems more likely to get us into a shooting war.

I also believe that, when it comes to the quality of USA - Russia relations , ball is in the American court at this moment. It is up to you guys how good or bad the relations will be.

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26-07-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
I actually agree with Trump on this.
Too many countries rely on the US and its strength to defend them. It'll be good for everyone if the US didn't have a monopoly on being a powerhouse.
Other countries could step up their defense and the US could cut back, it's a fairer way to do it especially considering the threats today are not just aimed at America but pretty much all of the OECD. I don't see why countries should get the benefits of NATO if they're not holding up their end of the bargain.

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26-07-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(26-07-2016 04:29 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I actually agree with Trump on this.
Too many countries rely on the US and its strength to defend them. It'll be good for everyone if the US didn't have a monopoly on being a powerhouse.
Other countries could step up their defense and the US could cut back, it's a fairer way to do it especially considering the threats today are not just aimed at America but pretty much all of the OECD. I don't see why countries should get the benefits of NATO if they're not holding up their end of the bargain.

Actually, the countries who are counting the most on NATO to protect their sovereignty are like Estonia and Lithuania. Both these country meet the demand of NATO as for defense spendings, equipment, training and interoperability, yet both of these country are currently affraid to see their full sovereignty challenged by Russia and faced against a country so much more heavily armed, that they couldn't possibly think of even presenting a military challenge to them. hey aren't relying on NATO because they are indolent, lazy or stupid, but because they need strong allies to protect themselves.

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26-07-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(26-07-2016 05:28 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 04:29 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I actually agree with Trump on this.
Too many countries rely on the US and its strength to defend them. It'll be good for everyone if the US didn't have a monopoly on being a powerhouse.
Other countries could step up their defense and the US could cut back, it's a fairer way to do it especially considering the threats today are not just aimed at America but pretty much all of the OECD. I don't see why countries should get the benefits of NATO if they're not holding up their end of the bargain.

Actually, the countries who are counting the most on NATO to protect their sovereignty are like Estonia and Lithuania. Both these country meet the demand of NATO as for defense spendings, equipment, training and interoperability, yet both of these country are currently affraid to see their full sovereignty challenged by Russia and faced against a country so much more heavily armed, that they couldn't possibly think of even presenting a military challenge to them. hey aren't relying on NATO because they are indolent, lazy or stupid, but because they need strong allies to protect themselves.
Uh, no. Estonia does, Lithuania doesn't. Their defense spending is at 1.48% of their GDP as of 2016. Only five out of the 28 NATO member states meet the 2% goal.

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26-07-2016, 06:39 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
I think putin is actually more clever than people give him credit for.

I think our (western) media is good at pushing agenda's and liberally applying propoganda to its own populous. Russia have their own news outlets, that broadcast in our countries, that often report stories against our own system, that our media wouldn't really touch with a barge pole. They are masters of propoganda that must make our overlords jealous.

With regards to crimea. Russia and Ukraine were very close until the "uprising". The country was in chaos and Russia has a strategic entry point into the black sea with their naval base at sevastopol. You cant really blame them for defending their own interests. If any of our western countries had some of their assests threatened by a country that was ripping itself to bits, especially military, would we sit back and just watch it fall? I highly doubt it. Putin simply sent in his green men and tanks and secured it. He wasnt bothered about the sanctions placed upon Russia as he must of obviously known that they would hurt Europe in return.

Then we have the war on ISIS in syria. We were bombing fuck out of targets but for some reason we simply didnt spot the huge massive fuck off convoys of trucks that were taking oil into turkey, we never spotted them until Russia came in and started destroying them on a large scale and accusing Erdogan and his family of directly profiting from it.

The world is already at war, but countries dont fight each other directly. They use proxy armies to do their battles. Im not sure what will change the direction of the amassing of troops on russias borders from both sides, but I just dont like the look of it.

Sure Russia is run by psychopaths, but I also think the western alliance is also run by them. The difference being that russian corruption is quite obvious and western corruption is hidden. Putin has a lot more support by his people.

So fuck the alliance. Fuck nato. Fuck all of the bastards. Trump is griping that countries are not investing enough in instruments of war and death, which is just fucking madness. The west bleats on about peace and democracy yet america has waged the most wars/battles in recent history, the hipocrisy makes me quite giddy. It is NOT about peace and democracy, its about money and, if not more, about power.

Fuck picking sides, both are shit and dont worry about psychopaths coming in and ruling the roost, they allready have. They have been here for fucking years.

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26-07-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
This is why we need to create a massive drone army with orders to take over the human race and rule over us with consistency, replacing all flawed human leaders with AI based leadership.

Until then, I fully expect to die in a war against Russia or terrorists or some other random enemy. Whether it's a bullet or a nuke is irrelevant.

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26-07-2016, 07:33 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(26-07-2016 05:38 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 05:28 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Actually, the countries who are counting the most on NATO to protect their sovereignty are like Estonia and Lithuania. Both these country meet the demand of NATO as for defense spendings, equipment, training and interoperability, yet both of these country are currently affraid to see their full sovereignty challenged by Russia and faced against a country so much more heavily armed, that they couldn't possibly think of even presenting a military challenge to them. hey aren't relying on NATO because they are indolent, lazy or stupid, but because they need strong allies to protect themselves.
Uh, no. Estonia does, Lithuania doesn't. Their defense spending is at 1.48% of their GDP as of 2016. Only five out of the 28 NATO member states meet the 2% goal.

You are correct about Lithuania. But, it is slowly raising its defense spending. Cumpulsory military service was reintroduced in 2015 and the country hope to reach NATO objective in terms of spending by 2018. Currently, their status is rather important since they hold a strategic airbase to secure the baltic sea.

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26-07-2016, 07:37 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(26-07-2016 05:28 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(26-07-2016 04:29 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I actually agree with Trump on this.
Too many countries rely on the US and its strength to defend them. It'll be good for everyone if the US didn't have a monopoly on being a powerhouse.
Other countries could step up their defense and the US could cut back, it's a fairer way to do it especially considering the threats today are not just aimed at America but pretty much all of the OECD. I don't see why countries should get the benefits of NATO if they're not holding up their end of the bargain.

Actually, the countries who are counting the most on NATO to protect their sovereignty are like Estonia and Lithuania. Both these country meet the demand of NATO as for defense spendings, equipment, training and interoperability, yet both of these country are currently affraid to see their full sovereignty challenged by Russia and faced against a country so much more heavily armed, that they couldn't possibly think of even presenting a military challenge to them. hey aren't relying on NATO because they are indolent, lazy or stupid, but because they need strong allies to protect themselves.

What Vosur said. But also what I'm referring to is aimed more towards larger countries like the UK or Germany. Even though the UK does meet that 2% threshold they're hardly the global power that almost conquered the world any more.

Maybe I'm just looking at this wrong. The face of warfare today has changed drastically from even the Cold War. It's all about drones and dropping missiles exactly where you want them. Still, I can't help but cringe whenever I see an Invincible class carrier ship.

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26-07-2016, 07:42 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
(26-07-2016 06:39 PM)bemore Wrote:  I think putin is actually more clever than people give him credit for.

I think our (western) media is good at pushing agenda's and liberally applying propoganda to its own populous. Russia have their own news outlets, that broadcast in our countries, that often report stories against our own system, that our media wouldn't really touch with a barge pole. They are masters of propoganda that must make our overlords jealous.

With regards to crimea. Russia and Ukraine were very close until the "uprising". The country was in chaos and Russia has a strategic entry point into the black sea with their naval base at sevastopol. You cant really blame them for defending their own interests. If any of our western countries had some of their assests threatened by a country that was ripping itself to bits, especially military, would we sit back and just watch it fall? I highly doubt it. Putin simply sent in his green men and tanks and secured it. He wasnt bothered about the sanctions placed upon Russia as he must of obviously known that they would hurt Europe in return.

Then we have the war on ISIS in syria. We were bombing fuck out of targets but for some reason we simply didnt spot the huge massive fuck off convoys of trucks that were taking oil into turkey, we never spotted them until Russia came in and started destroying them on a large scale and accusing Erdogan and his family of directly profiting from it.

The world is already at war, but countries dont fight each other directly. They use proxy armies to do their battles. Im not sure what will change the direction of the amassing of troops on russias borders from both sides, but I just dont like the look of it.

Sure Russia is run by psychopaths, but I also think the western alliance is also run by them. The difference being that russian corruption is quite obvious and western corruption is hidden. Putin has a lot more support by his people.

So fuck the alliance. Fuck nato. Fuck all of the bastards. Trump is griping that countries are not investing enough in instruments of war and death, which is just fucking madness. The west bleats on about peace and democracy yet america has waged the most wars/battles in recent history, the hipocrisy makes me quite giddy. It is NOT about peace and democracy, its about money and, if not more, about power.

Fuck picking sides, both are shit and dont worry about psychopaths coming in and ruling the roost, they allready have. They have been here for fucking years.

I agree with you (holy shit that tasted like vinegar to say).
Another reason why I think other western countries should step up to stop the US having a monopoly on military might. It adds checks and balances because the US might wanna do something but the UK doesn't. If the US needs the UK and vise verser there's that check and balance.

Trump saying other countries need to step up, he thinks it's about making the US great. I disagree, I think it's about keeping the US in line (though also it works for the US because they can spend less on military and more on corporation tax cuts). So I'm more than happy for Trump and red neck idiots to loosen that US grip on the military might monopoly.

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26-07-2016, 11:15 PM
RE: Europe, Russia and Trump
The (alleged) Russian hack of the DNC

Quote:Consider what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine if the Republican Party’s emails had been hacked by the Russian government, and then those emails had been publicly released on the eve of the GOP convention in a fairly obvious attempt to embarrass the party, and it just so happened that the Democratic nominee and the Russian president had been blowing kisses to one another, and it just so happened that the Democratic nominee had been proposing a series of radical transformations to American foreign policy that could practically have been written by the Russian president in order to advance his aims. How would Republicans have reacted?

We all know the answer: They would be screaming their heads off, saying this just proves that the Democratic nominee hates America and is trying to destroy our position in the world. They’d be calling her a commie and a flag-burner and dirty unpatriotic hippie. And the media would duly pass along those criticisms.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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