Euthanasia anyone?
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14-11-2011, 11:22 AM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(14-11-2011 07:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 05:47 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Why stop there? Put all the elderly out of their misery.

80+ Well you had a good run....and besides, you cost way too much to keep alive. How many children are starving to death, and dying of curable diseases so you can cling to a pointless life?
Shouldn't the people who actually have a future be given priority?

Is that not forced euthanasia?? (if such term could exist)

Is that not bordering on the "darker" side of eugenics???

You could say its forced I suppose, but its not really any different than what happens to pets.
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14-11-2011, 11:25 AM
 
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
If I want to die at 35, it's none of your business -- don't you dare to stop me!

If I don't want to die at 80, it's none of your business either -- don't you dare to help me!

Angry
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14-11-2011, 01:59 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(14-11-2011 10:43 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Now there are three different issues mixed in together, than need to be thought about separately, objectively and seriously.

Euthanasia by patient's choice was the original topic issue. I would like to see the legal and medical professions get real about this. Imagine being totally paralyzed, aware, but unable to move, effect anything, do anything.... maybe for years - or decades! .... and some self-righteous old fart in a comfortable oak-panelled office gets to deny you a right to be relieved of that condition. That is simply wrong.
Where people are depressed or suffer from emotional problems that may be curable or at least relievable, they need access to counseling as well as treatment, with death as an option in extreme recalcitrant cases.
Incurable illness, injury, malformation or degeneration require case-by-case assessment and discussion with the patient, family and attending physician to determine the best available alternative and time-line.

Secondly, mandated euthanasia was mentioned. This is simply the same wrong pendulum swinging over to the other extreme. If we don't tolerate outside agencies forcing us to live, why would we accept the same agencies deciding when we die?

The third matter is allocation of resources; which human life is worth how much. In the present political and economic reality, that is mere, far-fetched speculation. Nobody is putting human lives on any scale of values, except: privileged western middle-to-upper-class = must be saved as long as possible by any means possible, at any cost; all others = tough titties. When/if we can be a little more rational, let's talk.

Now THAT is what I call one helluva smart reply!

Peterkin broke this down better than I ever could have. Time to define the discussion!

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14-11-2011, 04:05 PM (This post was last modified: 14-11-2011 04:10 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(14-11-2011 11:22 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 07:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 05:47 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Why stop there? Put all the elderly out of their misery.

80+ Well you had a good run....and besides, you cost way too much to keep alive. How many children are starving to death, and dying of curable diseases so you can cling to a pointless life?
Shouldn't the people who actually have a future be given priority?

Is that not forced euthanasia?? (if such term could exist)

Is that not bordering on the "darker" side of eugenics???

You could say its forced I suppose, but its not really any different than what happens to pets.

WEll I hope I never end up in an aged care centre where you are in charge.

Yoy really need to give some thought to other ramifications contingent upon your initial premise. Have all old people had wonderful lives? What of our war heroes, troubled, but still making the best of their twilight years? Are there not many other potential initiatives to help young people? Hey, perhaps we could develop smart bombs that only killed geriatrics.!

Once one targets a specific group for annihilation you are surely bordering on fsacism.

Your claim is quite gross and even more so as your "argument" is quite infantile




(14-11-2011 11:22 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 07:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 05:47 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Why stop there? Put all the elderly out of their misery.

80+ Well you had a good run....and besides, you cost way too much to keep alive. How many children are starving to death, and dying of curable diseases so you can cling to a pointless life?
Shouldn't the people who actually have a future be given priority?

Is that not forced euthanasia?? (if such term could exist)

Is that not bordering on the "darker" side of eugenics???

You could say its forced I suppose, but its not really any different than what happens to pets.

WEll I hope I never end up in an aged care centre where you are in charge!.

You really need to give some thought to other ramifications contingent upon your initial premise. Have all old people had wonderful lives? What of our war heroes, troubled, but still making the best of their twilight years? Are there not many other potential initiatives to help young people? Hey, perhaps we could develop smart bombs that only killed geriatrics.!

Once one targets a specific group for annihilation you are surely bordering on fascism!.

Your claim is quite gross and even more so as your "argument" is quite infantile.
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14-11-2011, 06:30 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(14-11-2011 11:25 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  If I want to die at 35, it's none of your business -- don't you dare to stop me!

If I don't want to die at 80, it's none of your business either -- don't you dare to help me!

Angry

Thing I like about the Zat - he often does my thinking for me - there it is. Now I can be frivolous.

Youth in Asia. Me and my Gwynnies in Hong Kong. If the cabin's rockin' don't come a knockin' Big Grin

Life is good; as Zat concludes, life is individual.

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14-11-2011, 07:47 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(14-11-2011 06:30 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 11:25 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  If I want to die at 35, it's none of your business -- don't you dare to stop me!

If I don't want to die at 80, it's none of your business either -- don't you dare to help me!

Angry

Thing I like about the Zat - he often does my thinking for me - there it is. Now I can be frivolous.

Youth in Asia. Me and my Gwynnies in Hong Kong. If the cabin's rockin' don't come a knockin' Big Grin

Life is good; as Zat concludes, life is individual.

Yep! Poor old Neitzsche loved life. Compassionate too; he once tried to save a horse from being whipped.Cool........He died too soon.
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23-11-2011, 02:45 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
I never really thought about it much until I watched the move 'You Don't Know Jack'. I'm not certain of its historical accuracy but it definitly gave me somethign to think about. I'm now in favor of it because no person should be denied the right to chose how or when they die. I'm also of the opinion that not every person who wants to die should just be allowed to take thier own life. That makes it hard to draw a line of who should be allowed and who shouldn't. It's really all speculative and up to the opinion of the doctor. Since it can't reasonably be regulated it'll probably never be legal.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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23-11-2011, 03:20 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(23-11-2011 02:45 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It's really all speculative and up to the opinion of the doctor.
It's all really subjective. This subject goes into the hospital, it's Organ Donor/ Do Not Resuscitate. Big Grin

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29-11-2011, 05:05 AM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2011 05:24 AM by unsapien.)
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(14-11-2011 11:22 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 07:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 05:47 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Why stop there? Put all the elderly out of their misery.

80+ Well you had a good run....and besides, you cost way too much to keep alive. How many children are starving to death, and dying of curable diseases so you can cling to a pointless life?
Shouldn't the people who actually have a future be given priority?

Is that not forced euthanasia?? (if such term could exist)

Is that not bordering on the "darker" side of eugenics???

You could say its forced I suppose, but its not really any different than what happens to pets.

SERIOUSLY? Forced Euthanasia? We already have a word for that, it's called Murder. Please lets not make up new terms to try and make things sound better, the media already does that for us, like "honour killings". Next thing you know we'll be describing parents that kill their children as having performed a "late stage abortion".


This topic is important to me. My mother suffered for 4 years with ALS before she died. My father told me that if she had asked him to help her die he would have done it. There were a couple of reasons why she decided to not to, the most important of which was that she didn't want to take the chance that my father would go to jail and her 2 school aged kids would be left alone. There must be a legal avenue to allow it.

I think of the years I spent praying to god to either cure her or take her, just stop the suffering.

Now I have a different problem. i have an ongoing argument with my wife, she flat out said under the same conditions she wouldn't assist me in ending my suffering. She's catholic and suicide is wrong period, and she won't allow my organs to be donated either, whether I want to or not.

I am still working on her, I'm not letting this go though.
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29-11-2011, 11:04 AM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(29-11-2011 05:05 AM)unsapien Wrote:  SERIOUSLY? Forced Euthanasia? We already have a word for that, it's called Murder.

The word you're looking for is homicide. There is no malice in the proposal. Capitalizing the incorrect term at the end of the sentence is appeal to emotion. Obviously this is an emotional subject for some; just as obvious is the incompleteness of legislation in this area.

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