Euthanasia anyone?
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29-11-2011, 10:31 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(29-11-2011 05:05 AM)unsapien Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 11:22 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 07:52 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(14-11-2011 05:47 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Why stop there? Put all the elderly out of their misery.

80+ Well you had a good run....and besides, you cost way too much to keep alive. How many children are starving to death, and dying of curable diseases so you can cling to a pointless life?
Shouldn't the people who actually have a future be given priority?

Is that not forced euthanasia?? (if such term could exist)

Is that not bordering on the "darker" side of eugenics???

You could say its forced I suppose, but its not really any different than what happens to pets.

SERIOUSLY? Forced Euthanasia? We already have a word for that, it's called Murder. Please lets not make up new terms to try and make things sound better, the media already does that for us, like "honour killings". Next thing you know we'll be describing parents that kill their children as having performed a "late stage abortion".


This topic is important to me. My mother suffered for 4 years with ALS before she died. My father told me that if she had asked him to help her die he would have done it. There were a couple of reasons why she decided to not to, the most important of which was that she didn't want to take the chance that my father would go to jail and her 2 school aged kids would be left alone. There must be a legal avenue to allow it.

I think of the years I spent praying to god to either cure her or take her, just stop the suffering.

Now I have a different problem. i have an ongoing argument with my wife, she flat out said under the same conditions she wouldn't assist me in ending my suffering. She's catholic and suicide is wrong period, and she won't allow my organs to be donated either, whether I want to or not.

I am still working on her, I'm not letting this go though.
In terms of intense and prolonged pain where the prognosis is grim I see euthanasia as the most compassionate solution if the sufferer desires such.
In the case of younger people, where some form of cure may be possible the case will differ.

A victim of motor neuron disease can suffer greatly and may be unable to administer his or her means of ending it. Under legislation in Australia a doctor would be charged for doing so. There is certainly a great need for world governments to utilize all of the relevant resources to come to some reasonable compromises as to regulations that will at least minimize the complexities involved.

The problem is too disconcerting to be swept under the carpet.
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30-11-2011, 11:47 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
Quality of life? I had a vision - it happens - where I was hooked up with a Gwynnies of my own and the thought of genetic screening came down the pike. I don't like it, it's a slippery slope to the eugenic wasteland; so me and my significant other gave birth to a tyke, lasted ten days...

This was a simulation, of course; but in the sim it was ten days of love and life. Ten days is 864000 seconds, or 43200 Valentines. For me, giving birth to a child, to have in my identity for only ten days is not a loss. Consider this information:

A more careful physiological analysis shows that simultaneity is a relative concept depending upon the particular sensory channel receiving two signals: Roughly speaking, the more information accompanying a signal, the more time that is necessary between signals in order for the mind-brain to be able to consciously process them distinctly. Thus two successive sounds can already be distinguished consciously if they are separated by only 4-5 ms; two touches by 10 ms, whereas two pictures require a duration of at least 20-30 ms between them ~from Information Processing in the Brain

Note how this addresses both issues. The ten day old infant, without the conceptual framework of identity, language, history... may have received one continuous "wavelength," lets say, of life; may have lived, from its own perspective, a full span. I do not support genetic screening. On the flip side, what happens near the threshold? The same, in reverse, meaning that without responsible legislation in favor of euthanasia, it is akin to eternal damnation... an eternity of needless signal processing (what pain actually is).

These both address quality of life and value of life. Know that life has no value without identity. The meme that "life is precious" is a deception, it was the will of the ancients to preserve and sanctify identity rather than life; and now what do we know? Life is ubiquitous. Know what the universe seeks to conserve? Sentience. Here's Saturday's vision,
the last obituary. Death is an illusion; my naive philosophy is as solid as this table, we're just waiting for the science to catch up, so what it boils down to - is medicating against pain.

It is identity that no one can decide for me; life? I get to be a problem for others, pull the plug, smash this bug. I have already been identified. Wink

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12-10-2013, 05:44 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
Given the interest being shown in Earmuff's abortion thread I thought I might re introduce this one.
Of particular interest to older people is a claim allegedly made by co DNA discoverer Francis Crick that people turning 80 should be arbitrarily euthanased.
Should this be so? I know a few here would agree in my caseUnsure but what of all the old timers?
Is an eighty year old (slightly battered) worth how many foetuses?Cool
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12-10-2013, 05:53 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(12-10-2013 05:44 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Given the interest being shown in Earmuff's abortion thread I thought I might re introduce this one.
Of particular interest to older people is a claim allegedly made by co DNA discoverer Francis Crick that people turning 80 should be arbitrarily euthanased.
Should this be so? I know a few here would agree in my caseUnsure but what of all the old timers?
Is an eighty year old (slightly battered) worth how many foetuses?Cool

I have had the conversation with several people, both from the forum and irl. Personally I am pro-Euthanasia in voluntary situations. If it is the wish of the patient to end their life then yes I believe it is their right to do so. I think there should be counseling and full disclosure but ultimately if a person wants to end their life it should be their right to do so with dignity and grace.

As to mandatory euthanasia no I am against all forms of capital punishment (especially if the crime is merely you turned an arbitrary age)

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-10-2013, 06:23 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
I am a big supporter of the right to die. In cases of depression though, I don't support it. Generally there are people who love you, and care for you who would be devastated by ending your life. In cases of depression, you can be treated, and likely achieve happiness, and live a normal and fulfilling life.

In cases of terminal illness, it is likely the rest of your days will be filled with pain, humiliation, stress for those caring for you, and mountains of medical bills. Yes there are still those around you that love you, and want you to live on, but it is selfish of them to ask you to delay their loss by prolonging your suffering.

I cases of Capitol punishment, I have changed my opinion on this matter many times,and am currently unsure of where I stand. So many factors to consider. The morality of taking another's life as retribution for a crime, the cost to the economy of imprisoning a person with no hope of rehabilitation or remorse for heinous crimes, using the death penalty as a deterrent from heinous crimes, and how successful using it such a way can be.
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12-10-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
It scares me to think that if I became terminally ill, and wanted to end my suffering, that the medical establishment would still save my life anyway if they became aware of what I'd done. Or if I was unable to do the act myself, and a family member mercifully assisted me. They could face legal action.
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12-10-2013, 09:32 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(12-10-2013 06:30 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  It scares me to think that if I became terminally ill, and wanted to end my suffering, that the medical establishment would still save my life anyway if they became aware of what I'd done. Or if I was unable to do the act myself, and a family member mercifully assisted me. They could face legal action.

Here in Australia some people travel to Mexico where they can purchase the pleasantly quick acting Nembutal. Any other person helping administer such will be charged in accordance with current laws.............
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12-10-2013, 09:44 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
There are I think three states in the us where it is legal to obtain Nembutal under a physicians care. You can have it administered in your home surrounded by loved ones, but it is not legal in the state I currently reside. Hoping this spreads in our country though. The documentary How to Die in Oregon was about this. A very moving piece.
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13-10-2013, 05:37 AM
Euthanasia anyone?
Able bodied people do not need, and should not get assistance in suicide. Suicide should not be made too
easy so that only people who really want it would commit suicide.

Euthanasia without the consent of the person is not euthanasia. A person should give consent for euthanasia,
In some cases in advance, if the person is no longer able to communicate.

Termination of life support is a different issue. i think there are already laws for that. If the person did not make his or her wishes clear,
then we leave it up to the family.

If a person wishes to die for some extended amount of time, is not able to commit suicide, then others
should be allowed to assist in suicide.

A person in a depressive episode should not be assisted, because the death wish is only temporarily.
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13-10-2013, 08:19 AM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
Your body is all you have in life.

It is the only thing that is ultimately yours.

Possessions come and go, but you are firmly entrenched in your body, you use it's brain and limbs etc. to achieve whatever you can or want to achieve.

No one should be able to tell you what to do with it, or do anything whatsoever to it without your consent.

It is up to you to take care of it, and it is up to you whether you want to continue to do so or not.

Forcing someone to live is just as bad as forcing someone to die. Neither is acceptable.

Also, forcibly killing off old folks is stupid as can be. One creates wealth so one can survive in old age. Killing people off would have a huge impact on economics. There are lots of investments that would not happen. Old folks are a huge part of the stock market. Without people's expectation to live long, one of the driving forces of this economy would be killed.

Likewise, forcing terminally ill people to live against their will puts a burden on society. Costs of maintaining a failing body can be horrendous.

So, both from an individual viewpoint and from a societal viewpoint, it should be up to individuals to decide when to live and when to die.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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