Euthanasia anyone?
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13-10-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
My grandmother is 96 years old. She's not the type to do herself in but has expressed the opinion that no one should be made to live as long as she has lived. Her life consists of sleeping, eating, and walking laps of her lounge room under the watchful eye of my uncle who cares for her full time. She has the early stages of dementia and multiple other health problems. If she were to decide to die, I see that as her right. It shouldn't be a trivial choice. It shouldn't be something someone can do simply on the spur of the moment. But if someone has given the issue due consideration and has persisted in their intention to end their life then I don't see further government involvement being necessary. The means should be available without putting family and friends at risk of prosecution.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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13-10-2013, 02:38 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(13-10-2013 02:24 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  My grandmother is 96 years old. She's not the type to do herself in but has expressed the opinion that no one should be made to live as long as she has lived. Her life consists of sleeping, eating, and walking laps of her lounge room under the watchful eye of my uncle who cares for her full time. She has the early stages of dementia and multiple other health problems. If she were to decide to die, I see that as her right. It shouldn't be a trivial choice. It shouldn't be something someone can do simply on the spur of the moment. But if someone has given the issue due consideration and has persisted in their intention to end their life then I don't see further government involvement being necessary. The means should be available without putting family and friends at risk of prosecution.

I think it is the compassionate thing to do in a lot of cases.
The risk of people getting bumped off by rellies for their money etc is a bit of a problem, but I think the potential suffering aspect out weighs this.
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13-10-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(04-09-2011 06:27 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The right to die is a multi faceted question, if ever there was one, with pros and cons all over the place.
The late Jack Kevorkian (Dr Death) had very strong views holding that even young depressed people should be euthanased if they so desired. This rather sounds like overkill of the worst order. Francis Crick one of the co founders of D.N.A. is said to have claimed that 80 year olds should be compulsorily put down. So much for grey power.Here in Australia Dr Philip Nitshke works tirelessly for the right to die and has invented 'kind suicide machines 'to achieve that purpose.
The questions I would suggest we should be looking at, and there are many, include age, prognosis, degree of pain,choking etc, lack of dignity (incontinence etc) and depressions. It is odd, to say the least, that depression can be used as criterion to oppose euthanasia. "Give her some prozac and then we'll try and do something about that acute pain".
Palliative care is generally recommended as an alternative; however there are some illnesses, the pain of which do not respond, even to morphine.
Two other issues I see as troblesome involve Church and family.
Some see taking an even acutely suffering life as an affront to God, while selfish relatives refuse to 'let go' in order to satiate personal needs rahter than those of the victim.
There are of course negatives relating to mercy killings that involve possible new cures, patients made to feel a nuisance, lack of adequate palliative care etc.
I trust this extremely scant overview will encourage further debate. Sad
Consistent with my position on abortion and the place of government and law I would have to say that if there is no disruption to society then it is not the government's place to interfere or impose their beliefs onto others.
If an individual chooses euthanasia then it is their own choice to make.
My one concern here is with regards to a depressed person. Many people go through ebs and flows in the duration of their lives. Some people's ebs are to the point of suicidal tendencies. The confusion and awkwardness of youth makes them especially susceptible to this. So how does one justify the interference of government imposing on the choices of the individual? In this case maybe the choice should also involve the individual's parents or partner or children, maybe medical practitioners and psychologists? Of course were professionals are concerned there is always a professional willing to give the desired answer depending on the amount of money offered.
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13-10-2013, 06:23 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
If I choose to off myself tomorrow, it's nobody's business but mine.

Being subject to examinations by the psychiatric professionals or being prohibited from killing myself by relatives would just make me angry and more determined, and it would make life even harder.

Luckily I live in Oregon where we have the "death with dignity" act, and my personal reasons for possible suicide agree with the premises put forth by that law.

So if and when such a time comes for me, I won't be running into issues.

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13-10-2013, 06:51 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(13-10-2013 06:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  If I choose to off myself tomorrow, it's nobody's business but mine.

Being subject to examinations by the psychiatric professionals or being prohibited from killing myself by relatives would just make me angry and more determined, and it would make life even harder.
My position takes into consideration those that can help you in your endevours. There is no point throwing your rotting corpse in prison.
But the Dr that may have helped you, well, doctors generally need to follow an acceptable medical practice, which might include getting a second opinion, getting input from close family etc.

Do you not agree in some kind of safety net for people that might be merely temporarily depressed?
If I was a parent of a depressed child and a doctor helped her commit hurri curry, well, I might be motivated to take my rage out physically on that doctor, especially if the law won't do anything about it.
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13-10-2013, 07:33 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(13-10-2013 06:51 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-10-2013 06:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  If I choose to off myself tomorrow, it's nobody's business but mine.

Being subject to examinations by the psychiatric professionals or being prohibited from killing myself by relatives would just make me angry and more determined, and it would make life even harder.
My position takes into consideration those that can help you in your endevours. There is no point throwing your rotting corpse in prison.
But the Dr that may have helped you, well, doctors generally need to follow an acceptable medical practice, which might include getting a second opinion, getting input from close family etc.

Do you not agree in some kind of safety net for people that might be merely temporarily depressed?
If I was a parent of a depressed child and a doctor helped her commit hurri curry, well, I might be motivated to take my rage out physically on that doctor, especially if the law won't do anything about it.

Well, the death with dignity act only covers terminal illness. And you only need one doc. And, the majority of people who go and get the pills never end up using them. It's more of a peace of mind thing - you don't have to be scared anymore because you know that you can exit anytime. Having the pills available greatly improves what is left of one's life.

Hysterical teenagers should not be given pills.

It's impossible to keep anyone who wants to from committing suicide, unless they are too ill or too weak, and in those cases medical help should be available.

I think that the death with dignity laws should only apply to the terminally ill or very old or totally disabled. Everyone else can go and do their own thing if they wish, only the aforementioned need help doing it.

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14-10-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(13-10-2013 06:51 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-10-2013 06:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  If I choose to off myself tomorrow, it's nobody's business but mine.

Being subject to examinations by the psychiatric professionals or being prohibited from killing myself by relatives would just make me angry and more determined, and it would make life even harder.
My position takes into consideration those that can help you in your endevours. There is no point throwing your rotting corpse in prison.
But the Dr that may have helped you, well, doctors generally need to follow an acceptable medical practice, which might include getting a second opinion, getting input from close family etc.

Do you not agree in some kind of safety net for people that might be merely temporarily depressed?
If I was a parent of a depressed child and a doctor helped her commit hurri curry, well, I might be motivated to take my rage out physically on that doctor, especially if the law won't do anything about it.

As a self proclaimed amoralist your position seems to reflect very largely your own well being, so advise to others in any collective social sense, seems of little value, as we can all do our best to look after ourselves in a non involved way if we so choose.
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14-10-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(14-10-2013 04:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  As a self proclaimed amoralist your position seems to reflect very largely your own well being, so advise to others in any collective social sense, seems of little value, as we can all do our best to look after ourselves in a non involved way if we so choose.
I am quite keen for others not to impose oppressive laws, thus I discuss with others the merit of not imposing.

I want laws to be minimalistic.

If in future I want to be euthanised or if my parents want it or if my children want it then it would be beneficial to myself and my loved ones to have the opportunity to call upon professionals, Doctors and all to assist if we so desire.

I see any law as a potential threat to my life and liberties so they do interest me. Some laws are necessary to help me live e.g. laws against murder, so again I am interested in some laws being in place.
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20-10-2013, 06:10 AM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
I dont get why is this legal in 1% of countries and not in 99%.
Most people will one day be in position where the only thing ahead of them is few days/weeks of suffering in hospital and then death. And at that time when you will be too weak to stand up or even move your hands and you wont be able to think about anything else than pain, people will gather around you talk "ah, he has finally calm down and accepted the fact of death, he s certainly showing lots of wisdom and calmness..." and bullshit like that.

I really dont get why it s so hard to see euthanasia can be beneficial to large amount of people at some late stage of their life. The only explanation i can get is because healthy people dont like thinking about time when they will be seriously ill and seriously ill people are to weak to get involved in changing the laws.

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20-10-2013, 06:23 AM
RE: Euthanasia anyone?
(13-10-2013 07:33 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think that the death with dignity laws should only apply to the terminally ill or very old or totally disabled. Everyone else can go and do their own thing if they wish, only the aforementioned need help doing it.

If you believe suicide is the right of individual - then why not help them do it in painless and safe way?
Do you know great majority of suicide attempts are unsuccessful, many of them end in serious injuries. And even suicider who re successful are likely to suffer quite some pain before death. Why not avoiding all that pain and provide cheap and safe suicide method and some professional advice for these people (which will lead them where they want to be, not to be locked in mental hospital)?

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