Poll: Should euthanasia be legal for children?
Yes, (taking into account legal restrictions)
No, never!!!
Other (please specify)
[Show Results]
 
Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-02-2014, 05:38 AM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
(17-02-2014 05:27 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(17-02-2014 01:00 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  Subject is off-topic and considering your reputation, I wonder which logical fallacy you're going to use next? Reductio ad absurdum or the slippery slope fallacy? Maybe someting more creative? You know, atheists chopping up babies for profit?

Please share your insights on the subject at hand and use arguments to explain your thesis. "Jeebus sez its wrooong and ya'all baby eators gonna BURN in hell" isn't an argument, so please refrain from using it.

Have a pleasant day, sir. Drinking Beverage

My 'thesis' is that children can't give informed consent.
If they CAN, then Belgium is setting a landmark legal precedent.

You don't mind if I use the term 'legal precedent' as code for slippery slope do you? Sorry if the implications make you squeamish.

Forgive me if I am completely off on this, because I cannot read whatever is linked.

It seems to me that parents can give informed consent. Just like they do for any other medical procedure. I imagine the law would not allow this without the consent of the parents and the child. The parents would be giving informed consent. The child being informed to the very best of their mental capacity would be giving consent simply because it would be absurd to put someone to death without their consent.

I have laughed, in bitterness and agony of heart, at the contrast between what I seem and what I am!
Nathaniel Hawthorne
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-02-2014, 06:04 AM (This post was last modified: 17-02-2014 06:11 AM by Thammuz.)
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
(17-02-2014 05:27 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  My 'thesis' is that children can't give informed consent.

thesis,
noun: thesis; plural noun: theses
1. a statement or theory that is put forward as a premise to be maintained or proved.
2. a long essay or dissertation involving personal research, written by a candidate for a university degree.


If you refer to meaning nr.1, I look forward to the rest of your explanation.


(17-02-2014 05:27 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  You don't mind if I use the term 'legal precedent' as code for slippery slope do you? Sorry if the implications make you squeamish.

I think you misread the prerequisites on purpose.
And I fail to see why this system with all its checks and balances would constitute a slippery slope into mass infanticide.
But then again, I'm making the mistake of starting a debate. Answers the first questions first and then maybe I'll continue.

Squeamish? What the hell? I just don't even... Never mind...

Have fun with Jesus! You're right, you win the debate! congrats! Let me sprinkle some fairy dust over your head to mark your victory. You just dealt a crushing blow to atheism all over the world, congragulations! Stalin and Pol Pot are sad, but God's happy. Oh, look there, it's the Virgin Mary riding a unicorn and it's farting rainbows, whoopy. I'm gonna fill the bathtub to baptise myself once more. And then burn all heretic lecture, because I now have the one and only book. God bless you all!

Why did I waste my time on this?

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thammuz's post
17-02-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
You seem to be having trouble collecting your thoughts.
Focus!

Can children give informed consent - yes? no?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-02-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
16 people so far have voted for legal euthanasia of children.

If the consent OF the child is necessary, then the law confers authority on children to give informed, advance consent to the taking of their life.

If the child CAN'T give informed consent, then this is just post-natal abortion.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-02-2014, 03:17 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
(17-02-2014 03:15 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  16 people so far have voted for legal euthanasia of children.

If the consent OF the child is necessary, then the law confers authority to give informed, advance consent to the taking of their life.

If the child CAN'T give informed consent, then this is just post-natal abortion.

You were answered earlier parents can consent in lieu of a child and with this law there are a lot of hoops to jump through. Go be stupid somewhere else.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
17-02-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
Boy, you really are desperate to avoid the central question about whether children can give consent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-02-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
(17-02-2014 03:26 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Boy, you really are desperate to avoid the central question about whether children can give consent.

No, as had been stated children can consent with parental approval. This is not a new development as that is how every legal situation involving children works.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Revenant77x's post
17-02-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
(17-02-2014 03:26 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Boy, you really are desperate to avoid the central question about whether children can give consent.

No one has avoided your question, you just don't like the answer because it makes you look like a big dummy.
At the risk of being redundant, children alone cannot give informed consent it must be linked with informed parental consent. This is not a new thing. Children have experimental procedures all the time. Children have life risking operations that are not considered medically necesarry.

When you pull out your dictionary to look up redundant, take a gander at thesis as well ok.

I have laughed, in bitterness and agony of heart, at the contrast between what I seem and what I am!
Nathaniel Hawthorne
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes LostandInsecure's post
17-02-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
(17-02-2014 03:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-02-2014 03:26 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  Boy, you really are desperate to avoid the central question about whether children can give consent.

No, as had been stated children can consent with parental approval. This is not a new development as that is how every legal situation involving children works.

So a child can give consent as long as the parent (or guardian) wants to do it too. Hmmmm?

Don't you think that raises the prospect of duress and enticement.

This law blurs the line of moral responsibility and age of consent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-02-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Euthanasia in Belgium: children's right to die
(17-02-2014 05:54 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(17-02-2014 03:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  No, as had been stated children can consent with parental approval. This is not a new development as that is how every legal situation involving children works.

So a child can give consent as long as the parent (or guardian) wants to do it too. Hmmmm?

Don't you think that raises the prospect of duress and enticement.

This law blurs the line of moral responsibility and age of consent.

No it does not. It is no different than any other legal matter involving children and this law has a lot of hoops you must jump through. This is intended for terminally sick children who are in extreme pain to have a dignified end of life option. You have not, of course, even looked at this law you read the poll and are off fantasizing your stupid slippery slope bullshit. Go look at the law and report back which parts you like and don't like.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Revenant77x's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: