Euthanasia?
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16-04-2017, 03:24 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(16-04-2017 03:17 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I think it's a crime that when my dad was at the end and suffering with pain that could not be eased, his only option was to have his lady friend drive to his house and get his prescription of Oxy so that he could take an overdose.

He was in a facility and was on palliative care only. I watched one of the nurses slump against the wall, in tears, outside his room because she could not give him enough medication to relieve his pain without killing him.

I know dad's friend still agonizes over the decision. Dad wasn't able to do it himself and he didn't ask any of us kids to do it while we were there just a week before. My brother wouldn't have. My sister may have...I would have because it was ridiculous to have him just wither away in his own waste.

It's inhumane to make a person die like that...especially when they are fully aware of what's going on and can articulate same.

When a person makes an informed decision to speed up the inevitable and to escape some of the pain there should be allowances for that to happen.

I completely agree and your story emphasizes my point. My Grandmother dying of ALS went much the same way. Not in as much pain as you describe as your father went though but still agonizing the same.

I get to decide what my life looks like, not the other way around.
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16-04-2017, 04:39 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(16-04-2017 03:17 PM)Anjele Wrote:  ---
It's inhumane to make a person die like that...especially when they are fully aware of what's going on and can articulate same.

When a person makes an informed decision to speed up the inevitable and to escape some of the pain there should be allowances for that to happen.

I absolutely agree.
At this very moment, a friend of mine is trying to help her father through his death. In the opinion of hospice, he might last two or three more weeks. The so-called "pain" meds just leave him in a drooling stupor and/or with paranoid hallucinations.

In the hospital last week, I advised her that if she watched the door, I would help the situation along. She chuckled a little but then realized I was serious so she said, "If I needed it, could you do that?" and I said, "Yep."

We discussed it a bit later and she had said she had always felt Dr Kevorkian was a hero. Anyone who's had a loved one suffer through terminal agony probably thinks the very same thing.

If it makes any difference, my friend is a believer.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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16-04-2017, 05:32 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(16-04-2017 04:39 PM)kim Wrote:  At this very moment, a friend of mine is trying to help her father through his death. In the opinion of hospice, he might last two or three more weeks. The so-called "pain" meds just leave him in a drooling stupor and/or with paranoid hallucinations...

This is so sad—and offensive—at the same time. Seriously? Maybe only three fucking weeks? What makes this scenario even worse is the unnecessary anguish it's causing the daughter, notwithstanding even her father's ongoing confusion and discomfort. Who wants to see their nearest and dearest spend their last days on earth riddled with agonising pain and doped up to the eyeballs with chemicals? Not me.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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16-04-2017, 06:27 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
The very worst example I know was one of my aunts. She had early onset Alzheimers and by age 40 she was in an institution because my uncle could not manage her anymore. By age 42 she was immobilized, all she could do was blink. She was fed intravenously. She knew no one. Fast forward 40 years. Yep, 40 years! She was emaciated and completely still except for the blinking. At the end of a visit, we said good bye and tears would roll down her cheeks. She finally died at age 84.

This is unimaginable to me. Apparently she had lucid times still. Hell on earth.

My mom was in her 80s and had been on dialysis for over 20 years. She was totally shriveled up and weak as a kitten. She kept falling. One day I got a call from the hospital in Germany, telling me mom wanted me to come. I got there as fast as possible. Turns out she had been begging everyone there to please let her die. She went into shock each time they disconnected her from the machine, and I walked in just in time to witness. She was holding on to my hand and darn near pulled me into her bed - amazing strength, like you see in babies sometimes.

Anyway, the Germans are nuts. They could not grant her wish, but she could ask to discontinue her treatment which would cause death. They told me this, not her. So I told her. She jumped at it. But - they could not grant her wish because of I don't know what laws that came about after Hitler to protect people in hospitals (Hitler emptied them, no one knows where the patients went). So mom had to appoint me as her guardian, and we had to have a judge come to the hospital to pronounce her of sane mind and install me as guardian. (Nuts again, what if she had not been of sane mind, then she would have had no one because she could not have approved my guardianship). Anyway, all that happened and finally she refused treatment again and I spoke for her.

It took two weeks to get to that point. Seemed the hospital people were divided, some shook my hands and smiled when they saw me, others frowned or just didn't see me. Eventually pain set in and they gave her pain meds and she drifted off....

That whole thing was hell for me and I had nightmares about it for years. I am a vocal proponent of rational suicide as well as death with dignity (to me, pretty much the same thing.)

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16-04-2017, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2017 08:12 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Euthanasia?
(16-04-2017 03:17 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I think it's a crime that when my dad was at the end and suffering with pain that could not be eased, his only option was to have his lady friend drive to his house and get his prescription of Oxy so that he could take an overdose.

He was in a facility and was on palliative care only. I watched one of the nurses slump against the wall, in tears, outside his room because she could not give him enough medication to relieve his pain without killing him.

I know dad's friend still agonizes over the decision. Dad wasn't able to do it himself and he didn't ask any of us kids to do it while we were there just a week before. My brother wouldn't have. My sister may have...I would have because it was ridiculous to have him just wither away in his own waste.

It's inhumane to make a person die like that...especially when they are fully aware of what's going on and can articulate same.

When a person makes an informed decision to speed up the inevitable and to escape some of the pain there should be allowances for that to happen.

That's not how I think it works in all places. It's not overtly stated as "overdose" or euthanasia, but Palliative Care tells the nurses to "Make them comfortable". Effectively, that amount of Morphine depresses their respirations, and it's the same result. I actually don't see people die uncomfortably in the hospital here. But health care is very different from state to state. In general better in the North and West than the South.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-04-2017, 09:10 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(16-04-2017 08:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-04-2017 03:17 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I think it's a crime that when my dad was at the end and suffering with pain that could not be eased, his only option was to have his lady friend drive to his house and get his prescription of Oxy so that he could take an overdose.

He was in a facility and was on palliative care only. I watched one of the nurses slump against the wall, in tears, outside his room because she could not give him enough medication to relieve his pain without killing him.

I know dad's friend still agonizes over the decision. Dad wasn't able to do it himself and he didn't ask any of us kids to do it while we were there just a week before. My brother wouldn't have. My sister may have...I would have because it was ridiculous to have him just wither away in his own waste.

It's inhumane to make a person die like that...especially when they are fully aware of what's going on and can articulate same.

When a person makes an informed decision to speed up the inevitable and to escape some of the pain there should be allowances for that to happen.

That's not how I think it works in all places. It's not overtly stated as "overdose" or euthanasia, but Palliative Care tells the nurses to "Make them comfortable". Effectively, that amount of Morphine depresses their respirations, and it's the same result. I actually don't see people die uncomfortably in the hospital here. But health care is very different from state to state. In general better in the North and West than the South.

When I was there the week before dad died he had patches, injections, and sublingual drops when he was having trouble swallowing pills. I do not know the dosages but I do know that medication was being administered often. Apparently the dosages weren't enough to completely relieve the pain except for a few minutes after an injection...he would doze briefly and be awake within half an hour.

He didn't ask for the Hydrocodone that was at his house because he wouldn't have been able to swallow those...but the Oxy tablets were pretty small. He knew what he was doing and what it was going to take. He knew dosages as well as the staff, having been a veterinarian. And he took a LOT of Oxy to finally get the job done. In the six days between the time we all went back to our homes and he died, he took around 60 to 80 pills along with the other meds that were being administered at the facility. We were given back a bottle with four pills in it.

Dad was a tall, big man and I am sure he had also built up a certain level of tolerance to the meds having taken them for so long.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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16-04-2017, 09:11 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
My life is my own. If I choose to end it, it is solely my choice and no one else's.
If I need assistance, that person is being kind and is doing no wrong.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Facepalm

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17-04-2017, 08:34 AM
RE: Euthanasia?
While I'm all for the DIY solutions, I plan to make my own exit if it is ever necessary, the difficulty is that they don't always work. Sometimes with truly horrific consequences. In many cases they may not be an option.

I watched my gandfather in-law eaten alive by cancer. Immobile, delerious and in agony by the end.

I watched a close friend of the family slowly starve because a stroke had destroyed his brain but the only "mercy" that the could provide was to deny nutrition and max out the dosage of pain meds. It took a week and a half.

You woudn't do this to a dog.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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17-04-2017, 08:55 AM
RE: Euthanasia?
Euthanasia? I'm all for it. Suffering horrible pain of some sort with no end in sight? Do what you gotta do, you've got my blessing. Let's just make sure it goes without a hitch, you deserve that much at the least.

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17-04-2017, 10:56 AM
RE: Euthanasia?
RE: Euthanasia?

A: No thanks. I'm in no hurry.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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