Euthanasia?
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28-06-2017, 03:21 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(11-06-2017 02:53 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  t's your life, and if you can't even end it whenever you want, what kind of freedom do you really have? This is incredibly basic shit.
Completely agree. Although it does make sense to have some basic safeguards in place, it is nowhere near as difficult as some make it out to be, to make sure a person is not under duress, or is free of entirely treatable clinical depression.

If I had a weight problem for example I can't just walk into a clinic and order up a stomach-stapling procedure like it was a tossed salad; I'd have to go through a process and take medical advice, including a full understanding of side effects and the availability of less drastic options. Still, if I have the will and the $$, I will get the procedure. Same applies to ending one's own life for rational reasons: in an ideal world, it will be a process, just not an onerous or uncertain one.
(11-06-2017 02:53 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  Life is not always "worth living" in all circumstances, go ask someone in the final stages of cancer if life is worth living in that condition. Honestly though, a person shouldn't need to have a terminal illness for euthanasia to be an option, it should be accessible to everyone no matter what.
And requiring an imminent fatal diagnosis is an example of an onerous and uncertain process. In Oregon for example last I knew you need a death sentence and life expectancy of 6 months or less, yet the process of getting two different doctors to sign off on it and waiting for bureaucratic decisions, means you aren't much better off than just waiting and hoping the 6 month estimate is accurate. This is a particularly onerous process for someone who is ill / weak / in pain.

But yes, in reality the reason is no one's place to second guess. People should be able to self-terminate for any reason or no reason so long as it's a non-impulsive, considered decision not made under duress.
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Yesterday, 08:41 AM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 08:56 AM by Vera.)
RE: Euthanasia?
Italy to Allow Living Wills and the Refusal of End-of-Life Care : "Italian lawmakers passed a law on Thursday allowing adults to decide, in concordance with their doctors, their end-of-life medical care, including the terms under which they can refuse treatment. The law permits Italians to write living wills and refuse medical treatment, artificial nutrition and hydration."

I want to say that it's better than nothing but while we afford more compassion to our pets than to our fellow human beings and let them starve to death, because, apparently, it's "more moral", I can't quite bring myself to...

And speaking of revoltingly hypocritical and evasive, can-I-have-my-primitive-bronze-age-superstition-ideology-pie-and-eat-it-all-the-while-pretending-I'm-so-modern-and-enlightened, take a look at this sickening example Xtian "compassion"...

"Pope Francis unexpectedly bolstered the prospects of the bill last month when he told participants at a medical conference in the Vatican that while euthanasia or assisted suicide was not permitted, stopping treatment for terminally ill people could in some cases be “morally licit” and “acknowledges the limitations of our mortality, once it becomes clear that opposition to it is futile.”

ETA: And spare me the "well, he can't really say much more than this because reasons". Ever since the Enlightenment, Xtianity (and all religions, for that matter) have been dragged into each new century kicking and screaming at having to at least pretend to follow the evolving societies they supposedly *teach* how to live, and I am sick and tired of it and them.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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Yesterday, 08:50 AM
RE: Euthanasia?
(Yesterday 08:41 AM)Vera Wrote:  Italy to Allow Living Wills and the Refusal of End-of-Life Care : "Italian lawmakers passed a law on Thursday allowing adults to decide, in concordance with their doctors, their end-of-life medical care, including the terms under which they can refuse treatment. The law permits Italians to write living wills and refuse medical treatment, artificial nutrition and hydration."

I want to say that it's better than nothing but while we afford more compassion to our pets than to our fellow human beings and let them starve to death, because, apparently, it's "more moral", I can't quite bring myself to...

And speaking of revoltingly hypocritical and evasive, can-I-have-my-primitive-bronze-age-superstition-ideology-pie-and-eat-it-all-the-while-pretending-I'm-so-modern-and-enlightened, take a look at this sickening example Xtian "compassion"...

"Pope Francis unexpectedly bolstered the prospects of the bill last month when he told participants at a medical conference in the Vatican that while euthanasia or assisted suicide was not permitted, stopping treatment for terminally ill people could in some cases be “morally licit” and “acknowledges the limitations of our mortality, once it becomes clear that opposition to it is futile.”

With you there friend, the religious should have to wear a tag telling paramedics to take them to a church in the event of illness / injury, then we'd soon see how steadfast their beliefs were and how much they really believed their god can heal. Laugh out load
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Yesterday, 09:42 AM
RE: Euthanasia?
In the Jewish world, it has been a slow process. We finally agree completely that it is OK to turn off life support when a person is determined to be brain dead. Jewish law is not very accepting of euthanasia. However, it is an issue that is under continuous discussion, and there are indications that we might one day become accepting of a person's choice to die when the pain of terminal illness becomes greater than the joy of living. Jewish law progresses at a glacial rate, but generally in a pragmatic direction.

I sometimes have passionate arguments with myself that almost come to blows.
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Yesterday, 03:06 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(10-06-2017 03:14 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(10-06-2017 02:57 PM)Mircea Wrote:  Euthanasia is immoral and should continue to be against the law.

However, Physician Assisted Death (or Physician Assisted Suicide whatever you want to call it) should be permissible.

There is a difference between Euthanasia -- where a 3rd Party like the government is involved, and Physician Assisted Dying, where the patient is in complete control of the process.
Facepalm Facepalm Facepalm

Where do these people come from! Facepalm


And sadly, this is not the first time I've heard this ridiculousness "euthanasia is the state killing people". What utter ignorance! How exactly is the state involved? Other than granting permission by making it legal?

What is the difference between voluntary euthanasia and physician-assisted death?

My bold.
Good point Vera, couldn't have said it better though that's exactly how I too feel.

Today is the best day of my life and tomorrow will be even better.
Robert himself
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Yesterday, 03:23 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(10-06-2017 03:14 PM)Vera Wrote:  What is the difference between voluntary euthanasia and physician-assisted death?

The difference is my kids clean up and dispose of the gear from my nitrogen go bag w/o requiring a medical degree. Smile

#sigh
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Yesterday, 04:13 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(Yesterday 03:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The difference is my kids clean up and dispose of the gear from my nitrogen go bag w/o requiring a medical degree. Smile

Some of us are going to die the way they've lived, Girly, childless and alone. Ever thought of that? Dodgy

Don't want to be flippant in this thread (any more than I already was, that is Blush ) but I really want to post this... Love this aria Blush

"Oh, stop wounding me, oh let me die..."



"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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Yesterday, 04:22 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
(Yesterday 04:13 PM)Vera Wrote:  Some of us are going to die the way they've lived, Girly, childless and alone. Ever thought of that? Dodgy




#sigh
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Yesterday, 07:38 PM
RE: Euthanasia?
I think it's unconscionable that our society forces people to suffer needlessly. I'm 100% in support of physician assisted suicide and euthanasia.

The problem with physician assisted suicide is that the person has to be able to take the pills on their own. That means someone with a disease such as ALS has to either decide to end their life before they lose the ability to swallow, when they might actually still be enjoying life, or miss the window and die an agonizing death. I live in NC where religious assholes are unlikely to approve Desth With Dignity. That means that if I am diagnosed with a terminal illness, I will be committing suicide all alone. My family won't get a chance to say goodbye because they'd try to stop me.

There was a story recently in NC where an elderly couple died from murder-suicide. The wife had terminal kidney disease, and wanted to die. She should have been able to do that peacefully with her family by her side with a legal prescription from her physician. Instead, her husband fulfilled her wishes by shooting her. So, this poor man's last vision of his beleoved wife was that of her gunshot wound. He then shot himself. I don't know if he planned it that way, or if he did it on impulse, but I was livid on his behalf, and on behalf of his wife and their family.
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Yesterday, 07:54 PM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:58 PM by Vera.)
RE: Euthanasia?
I can - and have - done one better. Worse? More cynical? More realistic? Damned if I know...

All I know is, I stand by what I said five years ago...

(15-12-2012 11:54 AM)Vera Wrote:  I know, the human touch, physical closeness, all that jazz. It might (and does) work to an extent, but at the end of the day, everyone is alone in their suffering and no one can carry it for them but themselves.

(15-12-2012 12:09 PM)Vera Wrote:  This being said, while we do suffer alone, we also have this (futile) desire to alleviate the suffering of others. And when it can't be done by physical means, like providing them with food or shelter... Well helplessness in the face of the suffering of others is a horrible horrible feeling.

I guess I wouldn't mind the alone part (too much), as long as there are nightingales.. Blush

"whatever the day brings
the nightingale's alone
I'm alone"

Beeglez, that's equal parts sad and infuriating Undecided

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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