Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
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12-07-2017, 09:28 AM
Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
Monday, Christians lay hands on TRump.

Tuesday, what may well turn out to be TRum's "Watergate moment" happens.

God's Mysterious Ways.

One of the things that really blows my mind as a former evangelical is their eagerness to so totally annihilate their moral authority and credibility as leaders of any kind by supporting a pussy-grabbing, adulterous, serial liar (and, who knows, maybe traitor).

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm quite sure the evangelical world I came of age in (1970s) would not have touched Trump with a 20 foot pole, much less chosen him as their champion. Of course in those days evangelicals would not sully themselves with political involvement either. It wasn't "spiritual" enough, and thus "worldly". Seeking after worldly power at any cost -- even at the cost of "promoting" various forms of licentiousness -- was unthinkable.

But that was then and this is now. I'm not suggesting that evangelicals were ever pure as the driven snow, or for that matter, purer than anyone else (other than in between their ears). But like preachers and politicians everywhere, they have come to the place where they no longer feel the need to even appear moral and upright in public, or to have any meaningful standards. To STAND FOR something.

Too bad, so sad.

** Mods, if you feel this thread is more appropriate under politics, feel free to move it, however, my main point here isn't Trump but the moral turpitude of Christian fundamentalism and how that has deteriorated even from what it was.
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12-07-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
Quote:"We similarly prayed for President Obama but it's different with President Trump," Moore said. "When we are praying for President Trump, we are praying within the context of a real relationship, of true friendship."

In other words, their prayers for Obama were not sincere and they are more comfortable with somebody who is unable to distinguish truth from lies. They deserve each other.

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12-07-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
(12-07-2017 09:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
Quote:"We similarly prayed for President Obama but it's different with President Trump," Moore said. "When we are praying for President Trump, we are praying within the context of a real relationship, of true friendship."

In other words, their prayers for Obama were not sincere and they are more comfortable with somebody who is unable to distinguish truth from lies. They deserve each other.
I don't disagree, but I think they saw it like this: Obama wasn't (at a minimum) sufficiently receptive to their concerns or likely to respond, god would not violate his free will, and so they were going through the motions to maintain a tradition of White House access or ... something. But Trump ... even to the extent he privately appalls them, they feel he is receptive, can be influenced / worked with by them and by god, therefore ... hope springs eternal.

I realize this is just saying what you said, unfogged, overlaid with the rationalizations I'm pretty sure they're using on themselves and others, but it helps explain why they do it. Yes, they deserve each other, and TRump will ultimately pull them down with him.

It can't happen soon enough.
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12-07-2017, 11:01 AM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
I don't see how Trump can bring down the evangelicals. I frankly see them both using each other for mutual benefit. The Catholic church has stayed upright despite continued scandal after scandal. Affiliation with Trump is not critical to the evangelicals who were quite strong before the emergence of Trump and will be strong afterwards in my opinion. Evangelicals are like a mythical hydra: cut one head off, another two will sprout in it's absence. Education and progress will be the enemy of the evangelicals which is a slow process unless we get a extinction level event like contact with another intelligent species.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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12-07-2017, 12:15 PM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
(12-07-2017 09:28 AM)mordant Wrote:  Monday, Christians lay hands on TRump.

Tuesday, what may well turn out to be TRum's "Watergate moment" happens.

God's Mysterious Ways.

One of the things that really blows my mind as a former evangelical is their eagerness to so totally annihilate their moral authority and credibility as leaders of any kind by supporting a pussy-grabbing, adulterous, serial liar (and, who knows, maybe traitor).

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm quite sure the evangelical world I came of age in (1970s) would not have touched Trump with a 20 foot pole, much less chosen him as their champion. Of course in those days evangelicals would not sully themselves with political involvement either. It wasn't "spiritual" enough, and thus "worldly". Seeking after worldly power at any cost -- even at the cost of "promoting" various forms of licentiousness -- was unthinkable.

But that was then and this is now. I'm not suggesting that evangelicals were ever pure as the driven snow, or for that matter, purer than anyone else (other than in between their ears). But like preachers and politicians everywhere, they have come to the place where they no longer feel the need to even appear moral and upright in public, or to have any meaningful standards. To STAND FOR something.

Too bad, so sad.

** Mods, if you feel this thread is more appropriate under politics, feel free to move it, however, my main point here isn't Trump but the moral turpitude of Christian fundamentalism and how that has deteriorated even from what it was.

.....

.....

.... wait.

....

.... waitwaitwaitwaitwait.

....

.... I wasn't aware that Evangelicals even HAD any credibility left to give up!

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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12-07-2017, 01:28 PM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
Someone needs to shop a pie in the hands of the doofus on the left. It is rather disturbing to see him willfully getting a spell cast upon him.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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12-07-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
And today...puppet sits down for an interview with Pat Robertson.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/20...th-clinton
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12-07-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
(12-07-2017 11:01 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  I don't see how Trump can bring down the evangelicals. I frankly see them both using each other for mutual benefit. The Catholic church has stayed upright despite continued scandal after scandal. Affiliation with Trump is not critical to the evangelicals who were quite strong before the emergence of Trump and will be strong afterwards in my opinion. Evangelicals are like a mythical hydra: cut one head off, another two will sprout in it's absence. Education and progress will be the enemy of the evangelicals which is a slow process unless we get a extinction level event like contact with another intelligent species.
By "bring them down" I don't mean bring them to ruin or something. Just that this makes them bottom feeders in a way that wasn't true a couple of generations ago. Thinking people who haven't been paying attention may have thought reasonably well of evangelicals (at least the milder types) but those people will be taken aback by the obvious hypocrisy here.
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12-07-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
Seems like this boyo found God just in the nick of time Consider

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-07-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Evangelicals give up more of their credibility
(12-07-2017 12:15 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(12-07-2017 09:28 AM)mordant Wrote:  Monday, Christians lay hands on TRump.

Tuesday, what may well turn out to be TRum's "Watergate moment" happens.

God's Mysterious Ways.

One of the things that really blows my mind as a former evangelical is their eagerness to so totally annihilate their moral authority and credibility as leaders of any kind by supporting a pussy-grabbing, adulterous, serial liar (and, who knows, maybe traitor).

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm quite sure the evangelical world I came of age in (1970s) would not have touched Trump with a 20 foot pole, much less chosen him as their champion. Of course in those days evangelicals would not sully themselves with political involvement either. It wasn't "spiritual" enough, and thus "worldly". Seeking after worldly power at any cost -- even at the cost of "promoting" various forms of licentiousness -- was unthinkable.

But that was then and this is now. I'm not suggesting that evangelicals were ever pure as the driven snow, or for that matter, purer than anyone else (other than in between their ears). But like preachers and politicians everywhere, they have come to the place where they no longer feel the need to even appear moral and upright in public, or to have any meaningful standards. To STAND FOR something.

Too bad, so sad.

** Mods, if you feel this thread is more appropriate under politics, feel free to move it, however, my main point here isn't Trump but the moral turpitude of Christian fundamentalism and how that has deteriorated even from what it was.

.....

.....

.... wait.

....

.... waitwaitwaitwaitwait.

....

.... I wasn't aware that Evangelicals even HAD any credibility left to give up!
Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but I was INSIDE the movement 40 years ago and it was ... notably less bad. I know that's not saying much.

It's a little like how politics has evolved. Republicans of yesteryear were libtards by modern GOP standards. Prescott Bush, Bush Sr's father, for instance, was the first president of the now-hated Planned Parenthood back in the WW2 era. Conservatism in the 1960's and 70's was still about cautious change, with regard for unintended consequences ... not about no change at all, ever, and indeed, about regression.

Similarly, evangelicals used to have actual standards and corrupt televangelists for example were a subject of dire concern, rather than of indifference. Politics was beneath them. In fact it was regarded by many as another manifestation of the dreaded "social gospel". It wasn't until the 80's that they started getting involved in politics and began to lust for power and fantasize about a quasi-theocracy in America and became serious about using secular power to control people's personal lives. Indeed ... few now realize that anti-abortion zealots didn't exist before the 80s or so.

Now it has come fully to roost and you can't even superficially tell them apart based on their ethics or integrity, etc.

I submit that 85% or so of the foolishness we talk about here on a daily basis didn't exist before the 1980s. I think Pat Robertson's presidential bid may have been one of the turning points.
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