Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
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27-09-2016, 01:14 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(27-09-2016 12:07 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(26-09-2016 10:53 PM)Astreja Wrote:  ..... None of you can show any empirical evidence of your god. ......
Wishful thinking! See:
[Image: Circular-1-atheism+copy.jpg]

Oh, I'll take a crack at this one! One at a time... well, several at a time, actually, since many of them are just random throwaway arguments that try to co-opt science to be evidence of Sky Magician.

#1) "the universe, life, DNA, RNA, protein synthesis, intelligence, specified complexity, the Big Bang...the laws of physics... the Second Law of Thermodynamics..."

Okay, gonna stop there with lumping all the sciences in together and just focus on the ones that are misused by Creationists (or ID nuts) to falsely infer theism.

The "Big Bang" is often used by theists to suggest that it means the universe had a beginning, and therefore something must have "caused" that thing to begin to exist. The problem with that statement is that no one knows that is even the case, let alone that it required a supernatural cause. It's pretty telling that most of the astrophysicists who work on the questions surrounding the BB are agnostics/atheists.

The cluster of "life, DNA, RNA, protein synthesis" is a common set of arguments used by idiots who don't grasp that just because something is complex doesn't mean it can't occur naturally. There is nothing that has ever been shown, in the history of biochemistry, to have a source, cause, effect, or function that is magical or in any other way non-natural. All of those things are just how atoms interact-- it's chemistry. That such chemistry is capable of retaining copied "information" is a byproduct of the shape of the molecules and how they bond, nothing more. None of it is remotely evidence for God, except in the masturbatory fantasies of pseudoscience-loving people who have no clue what's going on.

"Specified complexity" is a term coined by William Dembski of the Creation Institute, and is nothing more than a tired rehash of Paley's blind watchmaker analogy. It has been overwhelmingly debunked by a massive number of professionals who considered his ideas, and is outright laughed at by real biologists who are also Christians, such as Kenneth Miller of Brown University.

The references to the laws of physics (this is, presumably, the argument of "fine tuning", which is a joke and has been discussed here, endlessly) and 2nd Law of Thermodynamics indicates that the person who made that list doesn't have one single clue about the field of physics.

Seriously, man-- you work in physics; how could you possible put in an argument by someone who doesn't understand that the 2nd LoT only applies to closed systems, and that entropy can only be reversed locally at the expense of an overall increase in entropy? Did you miss that one, or do you simply have no shame?

#2) "...the Bible, fulfilled prophecy, the resurrection of Jesus..."

It's amazing to me that anyone could put these forth with a straight face as evidence, since the Bible is a morass of immorality and contradiction, and there's nothing evident (that is, visible to anyone who looks at it) about your "fulfilled prophecies" or resurrection story.

But here are three quick links for you:

A Handy List of Some Bible Contradictions

A Handy List of Some Failed Bible Prophecies

A Handy Transcript of a Lecture on Why and How the Jesus Resurrection Story was Fabricated

It's not looking good for your "evidence".

#3) "archaeology, the history of Israel..."

No. Not even close. Indeed, these are good evidences that the stories in the Bible were not written when they claimed but long after the fact, in order to try to establish a proud and unifying "ancient" history for the Jewish people in the Babylonian Captivity in the 6th century BCE. Most of it is demonstrably false or wildly exaggerated. Indeed, pretty much the only ancient stuff the Old Testament gets *right* are the things that happened in or just before the 6th century... in the living memory of those people doing the writing. But the ancient stuff they mostly got wrong. Pretty much everything we once thought about the history of Israel, from the Bible, turns out not to match the evidence. Sorry, pal.


Okay, well, I've had enough... that stupid meme goes on to talk about Intelligent Design, which has had its public forum and lost bigtime. Read the case of Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School District (the link is a nice table of contents by the TalkOrigins archive). The chief proponent of ID in the case was forced to admit that if we abandoned the standard definition of science, as he was proposing, and adopted one that allowed for ID to be considered a science, then astrology would also become one. He also admitted that, despite his claims ON THE STAND that certain things were "irreducibly complex" and "impossible" in biochemistry/genetics, he had not read the literally dozens of papers presented to him in court that showed the stepwise evolution of the very things he claimed were impossible.

Far from being "and then there is this little thing called logic", almost every one of the evidences listed in that meme is a reason we don't believe your god-story. Like I said, the Brahmin pandits did a better job than you guys did of covering up their story-fabrication tracks... are you ready to convert to Hinduism with me?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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28-09-2016, 09:50 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(27-09-2016 09:09 AM)Astreja Wrote:  .......
All we need to do is not believe your crap. We don't owe you or anyone else any further explanations about Life, the Universe and Everything.
..........
Here are some problems the secular science faces:


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28-09-2016, 09:55 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(27-09-2016 11:31 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(26-09-2016 09:39 PM)theBorg Wrote:  Do not confuse me with your wife!

It's good to see the civility, respect for others, and decorum that Christianity engenders ain't it? No
In a fight the one to blame is the starter. I was insulted, then I replied to teach a lesson in good manners. Capisce?
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28-09-2016, 10:05 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(27-09-2016 10:53 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  ......
The First Way: Argument from Motion
    ..........
    Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
    ........
Too many information, I have no a Research Institute here. Your sentence assumes, what the energy-momentum conservation law is always present.
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28-09-2016, 10:15 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(28-09-2016 09:55 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(27-09-2016 11:31 AM)SYZ Wrote:  It's good to see the civility, respect for others, and decorum that Christianity engenders ain't it? No
In a fight the one to blame is the starter. I was insulted, then I replied to teach a lesson in good manners. Capisce?

Bit confused are you, Borgie? Not really got the hang of the supposedly theist inspired ethical and moral stuff?

No Christian turning of the cheek but good, blood soaked Old Testament revenge of an eye for an eye?

Not, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" but, "Do unto others as they did unto you first"?

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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28-09-2016, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2016 10:51 PM by Astreja.)
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(28-09-2016 09:50 PM)theBorg Wrote:  Here are some problems the secular science faces...

Not a problem. There is no evidence for your god, and no consistent hypothesis due to the existence of multiple, contradictory religions; therefore, science need not bother with god-related questions at this time.

If you want science to deal with the problem of gods, first you have to design an experiment that can be performed. If the experiment produces consistent results independent of the beliefs of the experimenters, then and only then can we proceed to the next step.

(28-09-2016 09:55 PM)theBorg Wrote:  In a fight the one to blame is the starter.

And you started this thread, and you have told lies about atheists. You have only yourself to blame.
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28-09-2016, 10:49 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(28-09-2016 10:15 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 09:55 PM)theBorg Wrote:  In a fight the one to blame is the starter. I was insulted, then I replied to teach a lesson in good manners. Capisce?

Bit confused are you, Borgie? Not really got the hang of the supposedly theist inspired ethical and moral stuff?

No Christian turning of the cheek .....
It is not the act of violence. It is the friendly lesson in good manners.
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28-09-2016, 10:54 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(28-09-2016 10:45 PM)Astreja Wrote:  ..........
If you want science to deal with the problem of gods, first you have to design an experiment that can be performed. If the experiment produces consistent results independent of the beliefs of the experimenters, then and only then can we proceed to the next step. ......
There is the regular miraculous event: every year, in known time, the Holy Fire comes down in the Jerusalem. And the miraculous EM filed was registered by scientific apparatus.
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28-09-2016, 10:55 PM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2016 10:59 PM by Astreja.)
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(28-09-2016 10:49 PM)theBorg Wrote:  It is not the act of violence. It is the friendly lesson in good manners.

You do not present as friendly but as a very, very arrogant man with an execrable knowledge of science and exaggerated credentials. Your manners are hideous. You are utterly unqualified to teach us.
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28-09-2016, 10:56 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(28-09-2016 10:54 PM)theBorg Wrote:  There is the regular miraculous event: every year, in known time, the Holy Fire comes down in the Jerusalem. And the miraculous EM filed was registered by scientific apparatus.

Bullshit. I have no doubt whatsoever that the "holy fire" is merely sleight of hand and perhaps some chemical effects planted by priests, and that the number of gods involved is zero.

You really are a gullible little twerp.
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