Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
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01-10-2016, 04:41 AM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(30-09-2016 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  ...........
What are the properties of nothing? I'm talking about the nothing that people talk about when they say stuff like "something can't come from nothing!" I mean before the universe kind of nothing.

If it's nothing, does light exist?
If it's nothing, does math exist?
If it's nothing, does ...gravity exist?
.......
.......
.......
If it's nothing, does....the law of cause and effect exist?

DOES CAUSALITY EXIST WITHIN NOTHINGNESS?
I look forward to not reading the response you won't make.RolleyesDrinking Beverage
Term "Nothingness prior to Creation" means: no baryon matter and no spacetime (no gravity).
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01-10-2016, 06:09 AM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 04:41 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  ...........
What are the properties of nothing? I'm talking about the nothing that people talk about when they say stuff like "something can't come from nothing!" I mean before the universe kind of nothing.

If it's nothing, does light exist?
If it's nothing, does math exist?
If it's nothing, does ...gravity exist?
.......
.......
.......
If it's nothing, does....the law of cause and effect exist?

DOES CAUSALITY EXIST WITHIN NOTHINGNESS?
I look forward to not reading the response you won't make.RolleyesDrinking Beverage
Term "Nothingness prior to Creation" means: no baryon matter and no spacetime (no gravity).

There have been point by point refutations of the creation myth (both flavors) of Genesis on this forum multiple times, I could provide these links, but what's the point?

You have to have an intellect capable of comprehending the science,an intellect capable of realizing Genesis is making falsifiable claims, then an intellect capable of comparing science to the Genesis narrative.


Genesis is not even wrong.

It makes so many allusions to Babylonian mythology that it becomes clear that the authors of Genesis understood it to be based off of the Babylonian myth that they were copying it from.

I'm becoming more convinced that it was literally sanctioned by the Babylonian government to allow the Jews a unifying myth to facilitate their return from the Babylonian exile.

Do I expect you to even read and understand any of this? Of course not, so this is for any lurkers that are sane and competent enough to comprehend.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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01-10-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 04:41 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  ...........
What are the properties of nothing? I'm talking about the nothing that people talk about when they say stuff like "something can't come from nothing!" I mean before the universe kind of nothing.

If it's nothing, does light exist?
If it's nothing, does math exist?
If it's nothing, does ...gravity exist?
.......
.......
.......
If it's nothing, does....the law of cause and effect exist?

DOES CAUSALITY EXIST WITHIN NOTHINGNESS?
I look forward to not reading the response you won't make.RolleyesDrinking Beverage
Term "Nothingness prior to Creation" means: no baryon matter and no spacetime (no gravity).
So then causality doesn't exist in nothingness correct? Or is your definition of nothing not really nothing cause it still has laws and mechanics?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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01-10-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(30-09-2016 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 05:42 AM)theBorg Wrote:  According to Newton's first law, in the inertial reference system the bodies are moving with acceleration, if an another body acts on it through the force. Looking into the past we always see these acting forces. But because the time has a beginning, at the first moment the bodies were moved by force by the God. Hereby He is not moved by the force, because the infinite sequence of "force movers" is not possible.
OK theBorg before I really get into the meat and potatoes of this bullshit I want to ask you a few questions.

What are the properties of nothing? I'm talking about the nothing that people talk about when they say stuff like "something can't come from nothing!" I mean before the universe kind of nothing.

If it's nothing, does light exist?
If it's nothing, does math exist?
If it's nothing, does ...gravity exist?
.......
.......
.......
If it's nothing, does....the law of cause and effect exist?

DOES CAUSALITY EXIST WITHIN NOTHINGNESS?


I look forward to not reading the response you won't make.RolleyesDrinking Beverage

This is a point I'd like people to bring up more often. Thumbsup

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01-10-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 10:26 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  OK theBorg before I really get into the meat and potatoes of this bullshit I want to ask you a few questions.

What are the properties of nothing? I'm talking about the nothing that people talk about when they say stuff like "something can't come from nothing!" I mean before the universe kind of nothing.

If it's nothing, does light exist?
If it's nothing, does math exist?
If it's nothing, does ...gravity exist?
.......
.......
.......
If it's nothing, does....the law of cause and effect exist?

DOES CAUSALITY EXIST WITHIN NOTHINGNESS?


I look forward to not reading the response you won't make.RolleyesDrinking Beverage

This is a point I'd like people to bring up more often. Thumbsup
I've brought it up with pops, Q, theBorg, heywood, Tom, and 4 or 5 other theists here and I've never had a single person actually answer me, or even come close. More than any other question I ask this is the one that they all run from as fast as they can.
It's a shame too seeing as how it's a major problem for them, though that's probably why they run.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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01-10-2016, 01:19 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 09:53 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 04:41 AM)theBorg Wrote:  Term "Nothingness prior to Creation" means: no baryon matter and no spacetime (no gravity).
So then causality doesn't exist in nothingness correct? Or is your definition of nothing not really nothing cause it still has laws and mechanics?
The possibility of a time machine in the General Relativity does violate the causality principle. Correct?
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01-10-2016, 01:23 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 01:19 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 09:53 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  So then causality doesn't exist in nothingness correct? Or is your definition of nothing not really nothing cause it still has laws and mechanics?
The possibility of a time machine in the General Relativity does violate the causality principle. Correct?
Do you even know how to answer questions? Fuck' 'ell... let me make this easier for you: Does causality exist in nothingness? Yes or no?

Yes
or
No.

Piiiiick one.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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01-10-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 04:41 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 06:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  ...........
What are the properties of nothing? I'm talking about the nothing that people talk about when they say stuff like "something can't come from nothing!" I mean before the universe kind of nothing.

If it's nothing, does light exist?
If it's nothing, does math exist?
If it's nothing, does ...gravity exist?
.......
.......
.......
If it's nothing, does....the law of cause and effect exist?

DOES CAUSALITY EXIST WITHIN NOTHINGNESS?
I look forward to not reading the response you won't make.RolleyesDrinking Beverage
Term "Nothingness prior to Creation" means: no baryon matter and no spacetime (no gravity).

Nothingness is interdependant on the relatedness of motivation, subcultures, and management.

Nonsense generator
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01-10-2016, 06:30 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 01:19 PM)theBorg Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 09:53 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  So then causality doesn't exist in nothingness correct? Or is your definition of nothing not really nothing cause it still has laws and mechanics?
The possibility of a time machine in the General Relativity does violate the causality principle. Correct?

General Relativity is a model, it is not reality. Time machines in the sense you appear to mean are likely impossible.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-10-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Even an atheist can say "the laws came from above", isn't it?
(01-10-2016 06:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 01:19 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The possibility of a time machine in the General Relativity does violate the causality principle. Correct?

General Relativity is a model, it is not reality. Time machines in the sense you appear to mean are likely impossible.
Thank you, what you was interested in scientific aspect. The life of Holy Trinity prior to Universe is more of the mystery. But the cases within our Universe are studied very well.

The General Relativity is conformed in all precise tests. The decisive one is the success of LIGO (gravity waves are directly detected in 2015 and 2016). Is known, what they came from black holes of known masses and even spin. The signal is the unique signature. Do you follow?
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