Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
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22-10-2013, 10:28 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
(22-10-2013 10:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 10:11 AM)Anjele Wrote:  If I understand correctly, that predetermined (predestined) thing is the Calvinism that KC is leaning away from.

No, no.

Not leaning away... if anything... getting even more Calvinistic.

My bad...
So, if everything is already planned and nothing you do can change it, what's the point? This really is something I don't understand. You should just be on cruise control since there's nothing you can do anyway.

This concept puzzles me.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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22-10-2013, 10:31 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
(22-10-2013 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...
prayer is use[d] as an explanation for His purpose and a look into His will.

Right, OK. Useful.

Next time you have a chat with your god, please ask it why it's being such a cunt to all the rest of us i.e. the unelected.

Cheers.

Oh! And if you don't get a definitive answer, please ask it why it's being such a cunt to you?

Thanks

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22-10-2013, 11:02 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
   

Saw this gem today. It seems God is also listening to Facebook comments.
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22-10-2013, 11:11 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
QUOTE:
Why are Some Prayers Not Answered?

Sometimes our prayers are not answered. The Bible gives several reasons or causes for failure in prayer:

• Disobedience - Deuteronomy 1:45; 1 Samuel 14:37
• Secret Sin - Psalm 66:18
• Indifference - Proverbs 1:28
• Neglect of mercy - Proverbs 21:13
• Despising the Law - Proverbs 28:9
• Bloodguiltiness - Isaiah 1:15
• Iniquity - Isaiah 59:2; Micah 3:4
• Stubbornness - Zechariah 7:13
• Instability or Doubt - James 1:6-7
• Self-indulgence - James 4:3

Sometimes our prayers are refused. Prayer must be in accord with God's divine will.


This is why sick children can't be saved by prayer, the person doing the prayer did not read the EULA,

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-10-2013, 11:32 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
(22-10-2013 09:36 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes... technically... God did make her find it since every bit of minutia is pre-planned; however, the connotation that she portrays is that God is, as aforementioned, some wish granting fairy fluttering about making sure unicorns and rainbows are in tact for Christians.
[\quote]

How can everything be pre-planned if there is free will? What about 'ask and you will receive' or 'seek and you shall find'?

[quote]
Maybe I'm jaded and cynical... maybe... but I just call it being realistic.

What is realistic about believing in a 'loving' god who created human being just watch them suffer to somehow test their loyalty based on how much suffering they can endure.
What is realistic about a loving god who allows so much horror?
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22-10-2013, 11:36 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
Apparently I suck at quoting, sue me. Lol
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22-10-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
(22-10-2013 10:28 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 10:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No, no.

Not leaning away... if anything... getting even more Calvinistic.

My bad...
So, if everything is already planned and nothing you do can change it, what's the point? This really is something I don't understand. You should just be on cruise control since there's nothing you can do anyway.

This concept puzzles me.

Because we can't act outside God's will. If it's God's will for us to not be on cruise control... then yeah.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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22-10-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
(22-10-2013 10:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is what I said about prayer in the Ask a Theist! thread:
Prayer is essential because it is communication with God. Most people see prayer as “Oh hai god! Heal plz. Can I have this?” Prayer, in essence, isn’t this at all. Yes, our fates our determined, but this line of communication helps us understand God. It allows Him to answer questions. He can reveal to us the “whys”. Prayer is for us. It’s not for God.

We are to pray for others in obedience. Praying for others also allows God to reveal to us how He wants us to be used, what to say, and how to act around others. Ultimately, none of that is our choice; however, prayer is use as an explanation for His purpose and a look into His will.

How does this work exactly? In 22 years as a Christian(probably on 19 ish years of prayer[can't pray if you can't talk]) I never received a single message from god. No explanation of his purpose, no look into his will. Nothing, so was I just not a faithful enough Christian? Maybe I just sucked at praying as bad as I suck at quoting lol.
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22-10-2013, 11:46 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
So when a pious fraud is exposed its supposed to strengthen someone's faith? When adherents give their life earnings to some fraud since they believe its the end of the world and they will be raptured? Even when its proven false adherents still believe the explanations of why it didn't pass the con-man explains it was a "spiritual rapture?"
Mysterious ways indeed. All this predestined?

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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22-10-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: Even this makes me (a Christian) cringe
(22-10-2013 10:25 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 10:18 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  But if it's all predetermined, what's the point? You're already well aware it's god's will...

What does he [god] reveal? You rationalize it what you think the message is....

I could meditate and gain insight from a rock.

Because that is the predetermined medium in which God chooses to reveal His will. We (elect) can't NOT pray.

Ok...but...

Then what's to pray about? Everything that happens is predetermined...what's left to reveal? You already know everything that happens is god's will, unless you don't admit and struggle with the reality....

But in the end doesn't it just come down to acceptance?

I don't mean to seem difficult about this.

I struggle constantly against things I haven't any control over. Because to me...it's all about control and submission

That said tho I could be wrong.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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