Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
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09-03-2013, 09:30 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
(09-03-2013 03:19 PM)sandman Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 05:25 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  There was a frightening case of this I heard of concerning a woman who had to have an eye removed due to cancer. During the surgery, the anesthesiologist failed to administer the correct dosage of sodium thiopental to render her unconscious. She was also given Palvulon, a muscle relaxant, which is very painful to introduce into a person who is not under general anesthesia. She claimed the pain was so bad she thought she had died and gone to hell.

Due to this experience she has served as an expert witness in court cases against the use of lethal injection as capital punishment, since one of the drugs used in the process is Palvulon.
There is no mention of pain in the side effects list in the monograph for Pavulon. This makes sense as it is a non-depolarizing muscle relaxant that simply causes muscle weakness. On the other hand Succinyl choline is a depolarizing relaxant that first causes muscle contractions that can be painful before it causes weakness. It is used for intubation because it is much more short acting than Pavulon so the risk of severe hypoxia is reduced if intubation is impossible. Pavulon and Succinyl choline are still used but Sodium Thiopental is no longer available due to ( I believe ) its use in lethal injection with which the drug company does not want to be associated.




Fast forward to 8:20 mark. The woman in question described Pancuronium Bromide (Pavulon) as feeling like burning jet fuel pumped through her veins. That is, only if the patient is not properly anesthetized prior to introducing the Pavulon.

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09-03-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
Yep...I remember part of a very serious surgery I had 15 years ago. Of course, during the time I did not care. Hey...I might have been awake for a lot of the cutting, but I just didn't care. The doctor was good in that way. He put me under just enough to stop the pain and shock...and no more. I respect him for that - and he told me that was his goal before the surgery.

Afterwards...it took me 4 months to recover...without Anesthesia! It was painful as hell. The Doc said...sorry....you just had a bad condition, so that's how it goes. I agree.
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10-03-2013, 05:25 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
(09-03-2013 03:19 PM)sandman Wrote:  There is no mention of pain in the side effects list in the monograph for Pavulon. This makes sense as it is a non-depolarizing muscle relaxant that simply causes muscle weakness.

So in other words, hyperpolarizing muscle relaxant. Moves the cell farther away from threshold where an action potential will fire, Making it harder for the neurons to fire and in turn to trigger the contraction of the muscle. At least that's my guess. A depolarizing muscle relaxant doesn't make much sense to me, but then again I'm no expert in this field yet.

(06-03-2013 09:05 PM)Peanut Wrote:  
(06-03-2013 09:00 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...but she swore she heard someone say...oh shit.
"Oh, shit!" is on my list of top 5 things I never want to hear a doctor say when they are treating me.

Sadcryface2

Or...
"Oops"
"God help us"
"What's this?" - "I don't know, poke it"

(the last one was a joke Wink )

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10-03-2013, 05:28 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
(09-03-2013 10:03 PM)Julius Wrote:  Yep...I remember part of a very serious surgery I had 15 years ago. Of course, during the time I did not care. Hey...I might have been awake for a lot of the cutting, but I just didn't care. The doctor was good in that way. He put me under just enough to stop the pain and shock...and no more. I respect him for that - and he told me that was his goal before the surgery.

Afterwards...it took me 4 months to recover...without Anesthesia! It was painful as hell. The Doc said...sorry....you just had a bad condition, so that's how it goes. I agree.
Curious, what was the condition for which you were unable to take much Anaesthesia or pain meds? Assuming you meant recovery of four months without Anesthesia pain meds.

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10-03-2013, 05:41 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
(10-03-2013 05:25 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  
(06-03-2013 09:05 PM)Peanut Wrote:  "Oh, shit!" is on my list of top 5 things I never want to hear a doctor say when they are treating me.

Or...
"Oops"
"God help us"
"What's this?" - "I don't know, poke it"

(the last one was a joke Wink )

How about...
"What the heck is that?"

But my all favorite ... or just most personal one:
"Huh. Well that's weird." A doctor once, actually said that during an examination of my left nostril. Fucker. Dodgy

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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10-03-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
(10-03-2013 05:41 PM)kim Wrote:  How about...
"What the heck is that?"

But my all favorite ... or just most personal one:
"Huh. Well that's weird." A doctor once, actually said that during an examination of my left nostril. Fucker. Dodgy
Ahahah, that's messed up Tongue

I've definitely never had that happen, but some doctors have given me some interesting looks... Like come on, you must see people like me sometimes? you see like, dozens of people per day!

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10-03-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
Lots of people are purposely awake during surgery. They get a spinal block, and the table is tilted exactly so it advances/stays in the correct location in the spine.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gfor...st=2456679
Lots of brain surgey is done on purpose with the patient awake, so they can report what's happening.
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/nov/19/sta...n-surgery/

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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10-03-2013, 06:30 PM
RE: Ever hear of someone waking up during surgery?
I suspect the burning pain was from Propofol - a standard agent to induce sleep. It can be very painful on injection so I generally give IV lidocaine first to numb the vein. Btw Propofol was what did in Michael Jackson when it was infused no no anesthetist monitoring him.
Depolarizing means it first causes an action potential that contracts the muscles and can be painful at the time and post-op but there is no pain at the injection site. This contraction lasts about 5 seconds - then paralysis sets in.
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