Everybody's wrong.
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17-11-2016, 09:10 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
You don't read very well, do you?

No one said Yahweh was Babylonian. They said the myths of the Flood and of Creation were largely taken from the Sumerian (and later, Babylonian) ones. Abraham, the "father" of the Hebrews, came from "Ur of the Chaldees" (which is a problem, since Chaldea isn't old enough to match the time when Abraham was supposed to have existed, but we can be kind and chalk that up to referring to it in "modern" terms, when Genesis was written down during the Babylonian captivity), so it's hardly surprising that the Hebrew legends are derived from the place they came from.

Yahweh (or the YHWH "tetragrammaton", since they didn't use vowels back then) is a shortened form of el dū yahwī ṣaba’ôt, "El who creates the hosts" (El being a generic name for "God" or "Lord"), so literally the "Lord of Hosts", a form preserved in the modern Bible. A "host" was an army, in formation. That makes Yahweh of the Hebrews a war god that they thought would back them up in battle against their neighboring tribes. There is some evidence that the Midianites (the people, you'll recall, into whose daughter-line Moses supposedly married) and Edomites also worshiped this deity, possibly before the Hebrews did, under the name YHW. There is a fair amount of evidence that the original Hebrews were polytheistic, with Yahweh as their "patron" God, and only under the Babylonian captivity did they shift to worshiping only that god- you can note that it does not say "there are no other gods" but instead says "no other gods before me".

In other words, Yahweh was the "main" god, but did not deny that the gods of the other peoples existed (this is part of the point of the Moses-versus-the-Egyptian-Priests snake handling contest, to show that the god of the Hebrews was more powerful than the (still real and able to offer the priests magical powers) gods of the Egyptians. It's a parable of nationalism.

I don't know what your other questions are even asking, so I'll leave it to you to clarify before I attempt to address the rest of that drivel. I'm still convinced you're not even reading what I'm writing anyway, so eager are you to preserve your pre-existing views.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-11-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
A couple of days on WikiPedia could do you some good, kid. Spend Thanksgiving reading and learning something.

Israel emerges into the historical record in the last decades of the 13th century BCE, at the very end of the Late Bronze Age, as the Canaanite city-state system was ending. The milieu from which Israelite religion emerged was accordingly Canaanite. El, "the kind, the compassionate," "the creator of creatures," was the chief of the Canaanite gods, and he, not Yahweh, was the original "God of Israel"—the word "Israel" is based on the name El rather than Yahweh. He lived in a tent on a mountain from whose base originated all the fresh waters of the world, with the goddess Asherah as his consort. This pair made up the top tier of the Canaanite pantheon; the second tier was made up of their children, the "seventy sons of Athirat" (another name of Asherah). Prominent in this group was Baal, who had his home on Mount Zaphon; over time Baal became the dominant Canaanite deity, so that El became the executive power and Baal the military power in the cosmos. Baal's sphere was the thunderstorm with its life-giving rains, so that he was also a fertility god, although not quite the fertility god. Below the seventy second-tier gods was a third tier made up of comparatively minor craftsman and trader deities, with a fourth and final tier of divine messengers and the like.

El and his sons made up the Assembly of the Gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of Deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes the sons of El, including Yahweh, each receiving his own people:

When the Most High (Elyon, i.e., El) gave the nations their inheritance,
when he separated humanity,
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of divine beings,
for Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Iro..._of_Israel

(Bold emphasis my own.)

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-11-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  No misintepreting christians tried to kill you if you didn't believe in their god. God was only god for the jews not the bablylonians. Show me one test where they tested magic. Hosea's wife didn't get stoned when she committed adultery. And all the religions say the same thing. The jews are the most open minded people I know. When adam sinned creation fell and god punished us. And the jews had prostitution can't you believe that. And so evidence is in other culters for the flood. And zarathrusta Is enoch.
The jews? Do you mean current people?

Because what do they have to do with how the Maccabees or other historical periods of their strengthening? Not a lot remains the same but the jumbled traditions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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17-11-2016, 09:46 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
And god gave diseases to the world when the jews kept rebelling.
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17-11-2016, 09:55 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(17-11-2016 09:46 PM)socialistview Wrote:  And god gave diseases to the world when the jews kept rebelling.

(14-10-2016 11:46 AM)socialistview Wrote:  I believe in the end all god wants you do be is a virtuous compassionate giving person.

How does god expect others to be compassionate when he can not be so himself?
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17-11-2016, 10:28 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(17-11-2016 09:15 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  A couple of days on WikiPedia could do you some good, kid. Spend Thanksgiving reading and learning something.

Israel emerges into the historical record in the last decades of the 13th century BCE, at the very end of the Late Bronze Age, as the Canaanite city-state system was ending. The milieu from which Israelite religion emerged was accordingly Canaanite. El, "the kind, the compassionate," "the creator of creatures," was the chief of the Canaanite gods, and he, not Yahweh, was the original "God of Israel"—the word "Israel" is based on the name El rather than Yahweh. He lived in a tent on a mountain from whose base originated all the fresh waters of the world, with the goddess Asherah as his consort. This pair made up the top tier of the Canaanite pantheon; the second tier was made up of their children, the "seventy sons of Athirat" (another name of Asherah). Prominent in this group was Baal, who had his home on Mount Zaphon; over time Baal became the dominant Canaanite deity, so that El became the executive power and Baal the military power in the cosmos. Baal's sphere was the thunderstorm with its life-giving rains, so that he was also a fertility god, although not quite the fertility god. Below the seventy second-tier gods was a third tier made up of comparatively minor craftsman and trader deities, with a fourth and final tier of divine messengers and the like.

El and his sons made up the Assembly of the Gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of Deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes the sons of El, including Yahweh, each receiving his own people:

When the Most High (Elyon, i.e., El) gave the nations their inheritance,
when he separated humanity,
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of divine beings,
for Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Iro..._of_Israel

(Bold emphasis my own.)

Valiant effort to educate the poor boy, but I’m afraid it falls on deaf ears my friend. On the other hand I learn something overtime I read one of these posts. Thumbsup

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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17-11-2016, 10:41 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
He has but man keep rebelling. Ignorant of the scriptures is why you yall keep asking these questions which the bible explains.
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17-11-2016, 10:54 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(17-11-2016 10:41 PM)socialistview Wrote:  He has but man keep rebelling. Ignorant of the scriptures is why you yall keep asking these questions which the bible explains.

*We're* ignorant of the scriptures? Laugh out load Compared to you, every single fucking one of us is Thomas fucking Aquinas.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-11-2016, 11:03 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(17-11-2016 09:46 PM)socialistview Wrote:  And god gave diseases to the world when the jews kept rebelling.

Told you he worships an evil god.

Whenever I hear believers whining about "obedience," it's obvious to Me that they're not even trying to see things from a god's perspective. (Shameless plug: I am the creator of Think Like a God Day, celebrated annually on July 13.)

Let's put things in perspective. At the very front of My yard lives an ant colony. I don't expect them to obey Me, comprehend what I'm telling them, or even know who or what I am. If they wander out onto the sidewalk I try very hard not to step on them by accident -- and I absolutely do not step on them on purpose, because they're just doing ant things like digging tunnels and looking for noms. Their "disobedience" does not harm Me in any way, so I leave them alone.

So what the hell is Yahweh's problem?
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17-11-2016, 11:15 PM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  No misintepreting christians tried to kill you if you didn't believe in their god.

*misinterpreting
*Christians

Uh, the Crusades? Did you forget the centuries of Holy War? Or all of the later wars driven between different European Christians who thought others were doing it wrong? Anglicans versus Protestants versus Catholics?

You are entirely oblivious to history, and your ignorance is not impressive.


(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  God was only god for the jews not the bablylonians.

*Jews
*Babylonians

Except that the Jews were a polytheistic pagan culture who borrowed their god from the Canaanites. Monotheism is a later addition bolted onto and retrofitted onto Judaism to further the political aspiration of those who personally gained from transitioning to the exclusive worship of a single war deity. The Babylonians had their own deities, as did the Egyptians and the Greeks. Had Babylonian inspired Mithraism become the official religion of Constantine's Rome, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.


(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Show me one test where they tested magic.

Define 'magic'. Because if it involves anything supernatural, something that exists outside of nature (and thus our ability to test it), then it is not falsifiable.

Any time anyone has ever claimed to have such powers, they can never reproduce them under controlled laboratory conditions. I mean, if psychic powers were real? If you could see the future with Tarot cards? Then how come these people aren't constantly guessing winning lottery numbers or cleaning out casinos at the craps tables?

Scientists put psychic's paranormal claims to the test @ The Guardian

Every answer we have ever found has been 'not magic' for hundreds of years. Lightning? Not magic. Flight and aerodynamics? Not magic. Travel into outer space? Not magic. Positions of the planets and their orbits? Not magic. The operation of the sun? Not magic. The origins of stars, planets, and the universe? Not magic. Speciation and the diversity of life? Not magic.

So if you want to propose 'magic did it', then it's upon you to define magic in such a way as to be testable, then go about trying to falsify your own hypothesis. If you have well designed experiments and you fail to prove yourself wrong enough, you might just have something. Then others will try to reproduce your experiments, and if they get the same results, then you might have something. Science is not fast, easy, or glamorous. But that's why it works so well, because it forces people to work against their biases.


(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Hosea's wife didn't get stoned when she committed adultery.

What? Like laws aren't always applied evenly? Is that a new concept for you? If she committed adultery, then by rights she should have been, according to your fucking book.


(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  And all the religions say the same thing.

No. While they all make supernatural claims, they do not all 'say the same thing'. Jainism is entirely nonviolent, to the point of devout practitioners being almost paralyzed with fear of accidentally harming an insect.


(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The jews are the most open minded people I know.

*Jews

Try eating bacon in front of an Ultra Orthodox Jew in Israel, and you'll see just how wrong your simple generalizations are.


(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  When adam sinned creation fell and god punished us.

*Adam

No evidence of this, and sin is imaginary.



(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  And the jews had prostitution can't you believe that.

*Jews

So? Super anti-gay preachers solicit gay prostitutes in airport bathrooms in our country today. We have a war on drugs, that almost entirely ignores white-collar pharmacetucal abuse. You can get life in prison for possession of weed, or get 3 months for raping your 10 year old daughter.

So can I believe that the ancient Hebrew failed to utterly stamp out the world's second oldest profession, despite how barbarically prudish they were? Sure. Does that make them less barbaric or their book less worthy of derision and dismissal? No.


(17-11-2016 07:08 PM)socialistview Wrote:  And so evidence is in other culters for the flood. And zarathrusta Is enoch.

*cultures
*Zarathustra
*Enoch

No. Other cultures have flood myths, but their all centered around the fertile crescent. The native peoples of the Americas do not have a shared global flood myth that aligns with the Biblical one or it's precursors. The ancient Chinese do have a flood myth, but in their story the flood waters are beaten back by the Empire's clever engineers with a series of dykes and damns.

And Zarathustra is Zoroaster, the progenitor of a monotheistic faith (Zoroastrianism) that predates Judaism (being founded in Iran circa 3500 BCE), and from who they probably borrowed a lot of their ideas from.

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