Everybody's wrong.
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18-11-2016, 12:46 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:05 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  In fact I would just like to point out that Jesus is quoted as saying Eli! Eli! Lama Sabachthani?

Right before he died, Eli meaning 'my god' which I think we can deduce where the El part comes from now. So should we be calling the Christian god Yahweh or El now?

I have a feeling there might be some confusion if we start calling god El though.

Recall that Jesus and his disciples would have spoken Aramaic, not Hebrew. The "El" title was more popular in the northern areas that Israel encompassed and bordered, while the god-name of Yahweh came from lands to the southeast. In the time of Jesus, the Israelites had been taken away in the great diaspora, and replaced with Samaritans, leaving only the Benjamin and Judah tribes in the south (from which we get "Judea" and "Jews", of course). Galilee is north of "true" Judah territory, and would have been an area of amalgamated ideas and phrasing.

My view is that while El and YHWH started out as separate deities from separate locations, they were combined into a single concept: YHWH is the Lord Most High (El Elyon), and therefore the term "El" would have simply been as generic as the english word "god". Capitalized or not, it is not really the name of God but a descriptive title, while the name is Yahweh or Jehovah (itself a translation error for the Hebrew way of writing Yahweh-Adonai "the Lord God", if you want to look it up).

Therefore, if we presume that Jesus was actually crucified, and actually says what the gospels claim he said (there are three other things he supposedly said, up there, depending on which Gospel you're reading), then it's not weird for him to refer to Yahweh as Eli in Aramaic.

Edit to Add: But according to Socialist, I just need to read the Bible. So forget everything I just said because what do I know? Big Grin

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-11-2016, 12:47 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:35 AM)socialistview Wrote:  I've read the whole bible five times and I am convinced there is a god.

I've read the Dragonlance Chronicles trilogy multiple times, but that doesn't mean I worship Paladine or Mishakal. (I'd trade away your god for the Krynnish pantheon in a heartbeat, though -- they actually manage to balance good and evil, and the gods are pretty good about showing up live and in person when the occasion demands.)
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18-11-2016, 12:53 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:47 AM)Astreja Wrote:  I've read the Dragonlance Chronicles trilogy multiple times...

That is some good fantasy shit. Thumbsup

[Image: dragonlance.jpg]

Being a Cleric or Paladin in D&D is fun, because they can actually demonstrate their god's power. Tongue

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18-11-2016, 12:55 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:33 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Jesus says nothing is unclean in itself sociopath is apart of god its like hes taking out the impurities from it making it good everything put together is god duality right. Sociopathy is part of a persons true nature. God said man is like a dimond when its taken from the ground it looks like dirt shit then you put it in the furnish mold it refine it take it out and it looks like what its suppose to look like. That's how god says he makes men. Well you can do anything you want right without something blasting you away right now right but he doesn't want anybody to be punished so he's being patient see if you turn bringing the antichrist. I'm not re ligous astreja.

This is how Christianity works: convince people there's something wrong with them, then sell them the cure. It's also how one sells cosmetics and fashion apparel.

If God doesn't want anyone to be punished, then he doesn't punish. It's really pretty simple. Saying that god has to punish people if they don't do what he says is like saying I have to shoot you if you won't hand over the cash that I demand of you.

Hey, it's a free choice: hand over your wallet or I have to shoot you. You're the one who chose to walk into this dark alley, buddy.

Your god is an appalling fictional character, as immoral as Darth Vader or Lord Vodemort.

The fact that you can't even tell why these basic things we're pointing out to you are unacceptable and immoral is a good explanation for why you also make excuses for genocide.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-11-2016, 12:56 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
SV - which bible did you read 5 times ?
As far as I know, the god mentioned in any of the 30,000 + versions of the bible, never actually wrote any of it.

The god character never instructed anyone to build a bible.

I've read Tarzan a few times and not once did I think the stories were true.
It's my guess that you are an extremely gullible person.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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18-11-2016, 12:58 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  That is some good fantasy shit. Thumbsup

[Image: dragonlance.jpg]

I love the new covers by Matt Stawicki, although I still have a soft spot for Larry Elmore (and have a signed limited-edition print of "Companions of the Lance"). Favourite is the new cover for Test of the Twins, with Raistlin, Caramon and Crysania in front of the Portal.
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18-11-2016, 01:02 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:55 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  The fact that you can't even tell why these basic things we're pointing out to you are unacceptable and immoral is a good explanation for why you also make excuses for genocide.

[Image: quote-those-who-can-make-you-believe-abs...-37-31.jpg]

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” - Voltaire

He's already making excuses for genocide. How much more of a push does it require to get an apologist to partake in one? History shows us that, time and again, it is a very small leap of logic.

How many of the camp guards at Buchenwald thought the extermination of the Jews and other undesirables was a perfectly acceptable matter of course? How many of them went home every night to have dinner with their wife and kids as if nothing was amiss? Far more than anyone with a conscious would like to admit.

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18-11-2016, 01:04 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:58 AM)Astreja Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 12:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  That is some good fantasy shit. Thumbsup

[Image: dragonlance.jpg]

I love the new covers by Matt Stawicki, although I still have a soft spot for Larry Elmore (and have a signed limited-edition print of "Companions of the Lance"). Favourite is the new cover for Test of the Twins, with Raistlin, Caramon and Crysania in front of the Portal.

Ooooooh, that's nice!

[Image: 260025.jpg]

I had only seen this cover, which is less inspired:

[Image: 51JEQRD6B8L.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-11-2016, 01:11 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2016 01:25 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:58 AM)Astreja Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 12:53 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  That is some good fantasy shit. Thumbsup

[Image: dragonlance.jpg]

I love the new covers by Matt Stawicki, although I still have a soft spot for Larry Elmore (and have a signed limited-edition print of "Companions of the Lance"). Favourite is the new cover for Test of the Twins, with Raistlin, Caramon and Crysania in front of the Portal.

My favorite of the New Guard of fantasy illustrators is Todd Lockwood, probably now best known for doing the most recent covers for all of R.A. Salvator's 'Legend of Drizzt' books.

[Image: sojourn.jpg]

[Image: crystal_shard.jpg]

[Image: witch_king.jpg]

[Image: ghost_king.jpg]

He's also responsible for the redesign of the D&D 3rd Edition dragons.

[Image: NaturalHistory_2560x1600.jpg]

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18-11-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: Everybodies wrong.
(18-11-2016 12:46 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 12:05 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  In fact I would just like to point out that Jesus is quoted as saying Eli! Eli! Lama Sabachthani?

Right before he died, Eli meaning 'my god' which I think we can deduce where the El part comes from now. So should we be calling the Christian god Yahweh or El now?

I have a feeling there might be some confusion if we start calling god El though.

Recall that Jesus and his disciples would have spoken Aramaic, not Hebrew. The "El" title was more popular in the northern areas that Israel encompassed and bordered, while the god-name of Yahweh came from lands to the southeast. In the time of Jesus, the Israelites had been taken away in the great diaspora, and replaced with Samaritans, leaving only the Benjamin and Judah tribes in the south (from which we get "Judea" and "Jews", of course). Galilee is north of "true" Judah territory, and would have been an area of amalgamated ideas and phrasing.

My view is that while El and YHWH started out as separate deities from separate locations, they were combined into a single concept: YHWH is the Lord Most High (El Elyon), and therefore the term "El" would have simply been as generic as the english word "god". Capitalized or not, it is not really the name of God but a descriptive title, while the name is Yahweh or Jehovah (itself a translation error for the Hebrew way of writing Yahweh-Adonai "the Lord God", if you want to look it up).

Therefore, if we presume that Jesus was actually crucified, and actually says what the gospels claim he said (there are three other things he supposedly said, up there, depending on which Gospel you're reading), then it's not weird for him to refer to Yahweh as Eli in Aramaic.

Edit to Add: But according to Socialist, I just need to read the Bible. So forget everything I just said because what do I know? Big Grin

I thought most of his disciples would have spoken Greek? I also thought the diaspora didn't happen until after the Jewish Revolt? I mean before the Romans conquered Israel it had been part of the Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms for a good three hundred years, and before that it was part of the Achaemenid empire for two hundred years. Even in the western Roman empire Greek was considered to be the language of intellectuals and many Roman Emperors knew both Greek and Latin. A few Roman emperors also knew Etruscan with Claudius being the last known person able to read and write it. Claudius also composed a dictionary of the language but I believe his work has been lost. I would also like to believe that he knew how valuable his work would be and I hope that he stashed a copy of it away somewhere where it could be safe from harm.

I dream of an Etruscan version of the Rosetta Stone.

You seem like a person who likes history Rocketsurgeon, because I don't think most people would know the things you do. How did you come to amass such knowledge?
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